Do you still believe?

by Chimene 154 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Chimene


    ooohhhh, I'm so sorry, looks like I touched a bad subject, you have obviously been burned severly. I feel for you honey

  • JamesThomas


    I'm reading "The Power of Now" and he talks about your "pain body" and your Being (your true self) not being your mind, but something outside of it. From an actual physical standpoint, I don't buy that.

    Yes, Dave, don't believe or "buy" into any of it; because it's not about that. As Eckhart says, and our dear Ross mentioned, its not found in believing, but rather in really living it. Keep watching the mind and the grand life story which generally is experienced as the beginning and end of what we are, and a moment will come when the facade and enclosure of seeming separation from all else, dissolves. It will not be an experience added to you, or something observed as other or outside of you, but rather the very same consciousness which is reading this now will clearly realized boundless purity. You are not a some one pristine, but rather Purity itself. It will be far more intimate and real than anything ever experienced before.

    Onesong, I am fond of saying that I have one teacher with many faces, and Adyashanti, is one of those faces. I used to see him on a weekly bases. He is indeed a wonderful helper and guide to your true self. If I may I would like to post here one of my favorite little diddies of his. He comes from a Zen background and uses the title Buddha, in the following, however, he could have just as well used the words Truth, or Christ:

    YOU ARE THE BUDDHA by Adyashanti

  • JamesThomas

    Starting right now, this moment, I am asking you to become the Buddha. I am asking you to take your stand, to stand absolutely firm in your intention to awaken to the Truth of your Self.

    This is what the Buddha did. He didn’t say, "I’ll try." He didn’t say, "I hope I’ll find the Truth." He didn’t say, "I’ll do my best." He didn’t say, "If not in this lifetime, then maybe next lifetime." He came to the point were he didn’t look for anyone to tell him the Truth or show him the Truth. He came to the point where he took it all on himself. He sat alone under the Bodhi Tree and vowed never to give up until the Truth be realized.

    The power of this very simple, yet unshakable intention and absolute stand to be liberated in this lifetime propelled him to awaken to the simple fact that he and all beings are liberated

    ¾ that all beings are freedom itself. Pure awakeness.

    The Buddha was no different from you. No different. That is why he serves as a good model, because he was as you are now. So don’t worship the Buddha. Don’t put him on a pedestal. Don’t even look up to him. Become him. Have the same intensions, take the same stand. Be the Buddha now! Put an end to all delaying, to all excuses, to all bowing down to saintly figures of the past or present. Stand up!

    You are the Buddha! You are freedom itself! Stop dreaming your dream! Stop pretending you are in bondage

    ¾ stop telling yourself that lie! Stop pretending to be someone, or something! You are no one, you are no-thing! You are not this body or this mind. This body and mind exist within who and what you are. You are pure consciousness, already free, awake, and liberated. Stand up and walk out of your dream. I am here to say that you can do this.

    Step out of the dream of your concepts, and ideas. Step out of the dream of what you imagine enlightenment to be. Step out of the dream of who you think you are. Step out of the dream of everything you have ever known. Step out of your dream of being a deluded person. Stop telling yourself those lies and dreaming those dreams. Step out of all that. You can do it. Nothing is holding you back. There are no requirements and no prerequisites to awaken. There is nothing to be done, nothing to think, nowhere to go.

    Just stop all dreaming. Stop all doing. Stop all excuses. Just stop and be still. Effortlessly be still. Grace will do the rest.

    At each and every moment from here on out, have the intension to directly experience Truth, your true liberated Self. Don’t think about the Truth

    ¾ directly return to your experience here, now, moment to moment. Experience Truth. Experience your Self. Dive into your experience. Your experience! Your experience of hearing, of seeing, of tasting, of breathing, of your heart beating, of your feet touching the floor, of the birds, of the wind.

    Experience the vastness of who you are. Experience the freedom of who you are. You are the Buddha

    ¾ experience that. You are the Buddha.

  • AlmostAtheist

    >>People remain JW's and are denied access to God by the Watchtower Society.
    People who leave and no longer believe in Him are still denied access to Him.

    With respect, Honesty, I feel that religion in all forms is a type of slavery, and leaving the Watchtower to enter another religion is trading one master for another. Like Daniel said, I don't feel I need forgiven by a deity. I sin against people and animals, and I seek forgiveness from them. And from myself. But inherently bad? Nah, I'm inherently neutral.

    Thanks for the link, OneSong. I'm checking it out now. I agree, powerful stuff. I liked the idea that we are always thinking and become enslaved to thought. Stop thinking, and you're free. It's a far sight harder than it sounds. I envision the words in my mind all streaking into a single point in my mind, then blipping out of existence. In those few seconds from that moment until the next word jumps into my mind, there is nothing but awareness. It's tough to keep that awareness (hearing a car, for instance) from becoming a word ("car", "loud", "neighbor leaving for work"), but it seems to be worth the effort.


  • Chimene

    OH, I did not mention in my first comment, that the ones I have found to totally not believe anymore that have left the religion, seemed to almost all have been born and raised JW's. The ones that were raised in the so called "worldly" way, don't seem to have as many that don't completely believe. I guess point being, how DAMAGING the WTS is!!

  • Carmel


    All the people have formed a god in the world of thought, and that form of their own imagination they worship; when the fact is that the imagined form is finite and the human mind is infinite. Surely the infinite is greater than the finite, for imagination is accidental while the mind is essential; surely the essential is greater than the accidental.

    Therefore consider: All the sects and peoples worship their own thought; they create a god in their own minds and acknowledge him to be the creator of all things, when that form is a superstition -- thus people adore and worship imagination.

    That Essence of the Divine Entity and the Unseen of the unseen is holy above imagination and is beyond thought. Consciousness doth not reach It. Within the capacity of comprehension of a produced reality that Ancient Reality cannot be contained. It is a different world; from it there is no information; arrival thereat is impossible; attainment thereto is prohibited and inaccessible. This much is known: It exists and Its existence is certain and proven -- but the condition is unknown.

    All the philosophers and the doctors knew that It is, but they were perplexed in the comprehension of Its existence and were at last discouraged, and in great despair they left this world. For the comprehension of the condition and mysteries of that Reality of realities and Mystery of mysteries there is need for another power and another sense. That power and sense is not possessed by mankind, therefore they have not found any information. For example: If a man possess the power of hearing, the power of tasting, the power of smelling and the power of feeling, but no power of seeing, he cannot see. Hence, through the powers and senses present in man the realization of the Unseen Reality, which is pure and holy above the reach of doubts, is impossible. Other powers are needed and other senses required. If those powers and senses are obtained, then information can be had; otherwise, not.

    (Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 381)

  • daniel-p

    "I guess point being, how DAMAGING the WTS is!! "

    If the WTS is what broke my belief in a personal God then I dont think it is all that damaging. Belief in a God who brings retribution for the error of some person thousands of years ago is evil. Justification of it for the sanctity of his name is the height of egotism. And explanation of it through convoluted predictions and re-tellings of history about a 'ransom' for a non-existant capture (or sin) is the height of guile. The Christian faith, like ALL faith, is mythology. What amazes me is that humans finally can afford to rid themselves of the chains of faith and embrace a true age of reason - but we still continue to live our lives based on absolute belief and rationalize any course action to kill the enemy, who, of course, does not have the truth. Belief in absolute truth (as pertains to the meaning of life) is dangerous, and the condescending pity of absolutist adherents belies their claim of compassion and love.

  • Golf

    I'm a 'strong' believer in my Creator.


  • Mackin

    God is simply a belief, an imagination, an invention of the human mind.
    There is no evidence that god exists, therefore he does NOT exist. The complete lack of evidence over all of human history is proof he does not exist. I don't go with the agnostic view that "there's no evidence that god exists, therefore he might".
    I am convinced that those who have had some kind of "personal revelation" have either faulty brain chemistry, are delusional, or just plain nuts. Some choose to believe in god because they can't cope with reality without a crutch. Many (like a good percentage of JW's) say they believe in god but in reality don't. I was one of those, which flies in the face of "Elders are appointed by Holy Spirit" eh. :-)
    But hey, if belief in the delusion of god helps you cope with life a little easier, then who am I to judge? Just don't try to impose your belief on me, and stay out of politics.

  • shark attack
    shark attack


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