Tigerman: Guess I'm just an average, everyday guy that believes when he takes his pulse in the morning it's a validation that there is a God.
I respect your belief... From my point of view though, even if your life, breath and pulse are proof of His existence, He cannot be the omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient being of the Scriptures.
I think we need to define what "God" is, because we may be talking at cross-purposes here. Logically, if there exists a omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenvolent being, things like this footage would simply not happen. If i knew all, and could change all for the better, there would be no evil of this magnitude (given that I was all-Good as well). F**k my sovereignty, f**k proving Satan a lyer, and f**k my selfish desire to be worshipped.
Either God is benevolent, all-knowing but powerless, OR almighty, all-knowing and malevolent, OR almighty, benevolent but has no knowledge that evil exists... there are no other combinations.
Other than that, i respect your belief and your right to believe in a god... but if you rely on a mere feeling, for the existance of such supposedly ubiquitous and unmissable being, it just doesn't make sence.
willowman: These acts are committed by HUMANS. The very HUMANS many of you place your faith in, the humans who TELL you it's all God's fault...
Yes, these acts were certainly committed by HUMANS... God had absolutely nothing to do with the brutal stoning of the woman. HOWEVER, if he really exists, then just like the cowardly cameraman he stood back and did absolutely nothing, even with his ability to stop the situation.
Think about it, if you were God, would you prevent what happened in that video? If the answer is "yes", then why do you seem to morally superior to God who didn't prevent it despite being all-powerful and all-knowing??
walkaway: i think a little part of me has less idealism about human nature.
tetra: watch the video again, and try an experiemnt. switch your mind over so that instead of seeing a bunch of *humans* who should know better (or that come from god, depending on what you think about the universe), pretend just for a moment that there is no god, and that all you see are a bunch of bi-pedal, hairless apes in clothing doing these horrid things, and tell me if it makes more, or less sense. gaining an economic explanation for the "how?" of this behavour is the first step is understanding the nature of the "why?" question.
definately, an idea that we humans are some *holy race of beings*, created in the image of a perfect loving god, and destined for greatness in some higher plane of existance falls like a broken vase into billions of tiny shards when you watch a video like this... and when you contemplate that this happens every day somewhere in the world, the shards are ground down into fine powder and blown into the wind... However, for society to let go of all its suppositions (and beliefs) about itself as unique and special, would invite a nihilistic outlook on existence, which would in turn destroy society. Once we have both the "how" and "why" of Tetra's thought-experiment, we also need to find a valid, justifiable reason for why *as individuals* we want to be "civilised".
Since leaving the JWs, I have never really had any kind of idealism about "human-nature". I think that is dangerous. What I can do though, is make my own *nature*. I know what kind of person I want to be (at least i think i do), i have my own standards which are different to the standards that i was brought up with. My friends know my standards and I know theirs. We cannot expect to change the entire world, but we can *change* it by educating ourselves, by educating others, and by our micro-effort to make our own lives "moral". There is no golden rule that says: "Good must always triumph over Evil" in the end, but all we can do is make ourselves better.
