What is a Born Again Christian?? (page 3)

Evanescence

Evanescence:

Why do you think it occurs at baptism?
I ask because I would be of the opinion that an individual can come to a relationship with Christ and receive the "sealing of the Holy Spirit" without getting anywhere near water.
The baptism is surely just a demonstration of something that has already occured within? Or are you telling me that a child has been "born again" if they happen to be raised in a paedobaptist tradition, like the Roman Catholic

"be sealed with the gifts of the holy spirit" ~ a quote used at confirmation

Baptism (CCC 1213–1284) Because of original sin, we are born without grace in our souls, so there is no way for us to have fellowship with God. Jesus became man to bring us into union with his Father. He said no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is first born of "water and the Spirit" (John 3:5)—this refers to baptism.

Through baptism we are born again, but this time on a spiritual level instead of a physical level. We are washed in the bath of rebirth (Titus 3:5). We are baptized into Christ’s death and therefore share in his Resurrection (Rom. 6:3–7).

Baptism cleanses us of sins and brings the Holy Spirit and his grace into our souls (Acts 2:38, 22:16). And the apostle Peter is perhaps the most blunt of all: "Baptism now saves you" (1 Pet. 3:21). Baptism is the gateway into the Church.

Source: http://www.catholic.com/library/pillar.asp

God bless

Evanescence

LittleToe

So a baby is "born again", if it's had some water splashed on it's head?

What do you make of Cornelius? Didn't he receive the Holy Spirit prior to baptism?

LT, of the "Reformed doctrine" class

defd

Lt you oughta know WHY he recieved the Spirit before being baptised. You were an elder once right?

D.

mouthy

See this is what upsets me LT !!!DEFD is full of questions but NO answers...I am sorry this makes it very difficult to continue a converstion.

gumby

Dfed, you DENY being born again and the scriptures say unless you are, you have no hope.....so how do YOU answer?

Many christians wrongly assume that being born again comes with an actual physical event.....such as an extreem feeling one gets at a certain time that confirms Jesus has adopted you. Some christians who NEVER get this particular feeling wonder if they are REALLY born again. I was one of these until I learned many others never had a particular "moment" that confirmed in their heart they were born again.

Jesus used the word "born again" to show the jews who were in bondage to the law that they needed a re-birth ( to accept Jesus as the savior and not the law).

Gumby.....who from a biblical perspective agrees with LT

TopHat

Didn't Jesus tell us in Matt. 18:20 Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.–Matt. 18:20

...No mention of any religious organization

Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.–Matt. 18:20

LittleToe

Gumby:
Aye, I agree with you totally on this one. The presence of the Holt Spirit is often not accompanied with an extreme experience (though it was in mine). It's a double edged sword; those who get an "experience" often want another and can be concerned that God has left them if they don't get it; those who don't get one can often be concerned over whether they have anything at all. A whole lot of often-often going on!

Derrick:
It's called "leading questions". You'll find that method used extensively by the WTS. Maybe you've not been a JW long enough to pick it up, but after a few months Pioneering in the freezing cold, you'll maybe start to grapple with the concept in the vain hope it might get you through someones' door and into the warm!

Grace:
He's trying his hardest to keep the WTS walls in place, but he's thinking and brooding in there

Bear in mind that they've been teaching him how to think and how to reason. He'll continue to attempt to be slippery, hoping that we won't notice that he's acting just like we used to, evading questions and side-tracking conversations onto subjects that he [erroneously] thinks he's right on. Gotta love that "Awake!" education, huh?

Finally-Free

Maybe you've not been a JW long enough to pick it up, but after a few months Pioneering in the freezing cold, you'll maybe start to grapple with the concept in the vain hope it might get you through someones' door and into the warm!

I pioneered in the freezing cold, but soon learned that the quickest way to get warm was not to ask leading questions. It was to keep the conversation as short as possible and get my ass to the nearest coffee shop/restaurant/bar.

W

LittleToe

~in best Monty Pythonesque voice~

Well, obviously one would find one's self in the coffeeshop, but I was talking about those brief forays outside the shop, like when the CO was looking!

Evanescence

Didn't Jesus tell us in Matt. 18:20
Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.–Matt. 18:20
No mention of any religious organization
Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.–Matt. 18:20

There is a church Jesus founded, the one true church....
There are also these scriptures Jesus said his Church would be "the light of the world." He then noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his return.
http://www.catholic.com/library/pillar.asp
Jesus did leave a church for us, but today there are over 33,000 different christian churches, but that does not make the true church established by Jesus hard to find. "To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant."
- John Henry Cardinal Newman Please if you are interested check out this site, http://www.threestepstothefountain.com/ It first deals with the argument on Athiesm (first step) then it moves onto other religions (second step) then it moves onto the different christian churches (third step)
God bless Evanescence

What is a Born Again Christian??

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