I hope this post is in the right folder, forgive me if it's not. My story in "short" form ...
I have been married to a lifelong JW for almost 6 years; however, when we met he was DA. He remained DA for a total of 8 years up until May of 2004, when he wrote his letter asking for reinstatement. Admittedly, the decision was a joint one. I had strictly opposed JWs for years - first of all because I saw firsthand the pain DA/DF causes (no one from his past, including family, could/would talk to him with the exception of his parents), and secondly because I had a rotten experience in a KH when I attended a book study about 5 years ago out of respect for my husband's parents (his entire family are JW). I've been a practicing Catholic for 15 years and the Elder conducting the BS made fun of the Church openly in front of me. Anyway, in all these years my husband has been DA, he never spoke badly of the JW except to say that he didn't agree with some of the "social practices". In May I finally asked him why he never went back and told him that if it had anything to do with me I didn't want to hold him back from his relationship with God - God is VERY important to me, and I couldn't stand all these years of my husband having NO relationship with God, especially now that we have 2 children. In time he decided to attend meetings and ask for reinstatement.
When the Elders came to the house I told them I was willing to be supportive of my husband, even attend meetings with him (I couldn't bear the thought of him sitting at these meetings all alone with no one even acknowledging him) - but that I would NOT become a JW nor would our children (both were baptized Catholic, actually, with my husband's consent). At first I begrudgingly attended meetings, sitting there refusing to care about what was being talked about. I would not sing, use their Bible, say "Amen" to their prayers, or participate in any way. But in time curiosity got the best of me and I actually started listening, then taking notes and comparing the things in my Bible with their teachings. I started making lists of things to ask my MIL (mother in law) - since we're actually very close, I knew I could ask her anything I needed to (she is a Reg Pioneer, and my FIL is an Elder).
In August I started studying with my MIL (my idea). My husband was officially reinstated in October, and I started studying with a sister in our local cong. (my in-laws live in another state). We haven't missed a single meeting in 7+ months. I answer at every meeting now. I didn't even do the holidays this year (my choice). So what is my problem? I don't know!!
I was feeling good about things during the time I studied with my MIL. I finished studying the Knowledge Book in less than 4 months. But eventually after I started studying with the sister from our hall (her husband is a very young PO at 30 years old), I was flooded with more doubts than I started with! She and her husband are WAY more conservative than even my in-laws - and me? I am ... not conservative. lol! I've always been a provebial "good girl", straight A student, college educated, blah blah ... but I have a "rebellious spirit" as the JW would say. I question EVERYTHING. And I am TERRIFIED of getting trapped in an organization that would run my life and the lives of my children.
Right now the Elders and others are on our case about bringing the kids to meetings - we have a 4 year old and a 10 month old. They have been to many meetings, but the 10 month old is not cooperative with sitting for 2 hours now that he's walking, and since meetings are past his bedtime, and he's ONLY 10 months old - I just don't feel it's necessary. We do bring our older child sometimes, though he'd rather stay home and play since his brother gets to. My instinct is - these are MY children, I am their mother, it is MY decision - so back off! But they don't let up. Is that fortelling of things to come, or what?
Also - I can't go out in the ministry because I am still smoking - which according to them is the only thing preventing me from being able to go out. I told them it's not like I would go to the door with a cigarette hanging out of my mouth, but that was a no go. ;) I have tried to quit - I got so sick cold turkey, the patch gave me a horrible reaction, and the gum made me sick to my stomach. They tell me to keep praying and Jehovah will help me - so far no good. =/
Anyway, this is just the trivial stuff. I just can't shake this nagging feeling of "how do I know what the right thing is"? I've ALWAYS had faith in God, and in Jesus as my Savior - so that's not the problem. I don't have a problem with Jehovah's sovereignty - I DO seem to have a problem with the WTS's "sovereignty" and their "interpretation" of what Jehovah God does or does not expect of us. I'm nowhere near a place, for example, where I could deny one of my children a blood transfusion if it meant their life because I am supposed to "put Jehovah first" in my life. I love God. He entrusted these beautiful children to ME. And I will protect them in every way possible for as long as I can, or die trying. Of course to the JW that means I don't trust enough in Jehovah. ::sigh::
I see all of the DF going on, and I've seen firsthand what it does to families. I feel like in becoming a JW means I am setting my child(ren) up for that pain because SO much is expected of them - all things that of course I WANT for my beautiful children, for them to become wonderful young men, but I do not expect perfection from my children, mistakes are sometimes made, and I would never turn my back on them.
I love my husband ... I love my in-laws ... I love the brothers and sisters in our hall ... and I surely love Jehovah and his son Jesus Christ, as well as the many things I have learned about them - but I can't shake this fear of the WTS. What the heck is my problem???
Sorry this is so long ... I would appreciate any thoughts.
Studying with JWs - Confused, Conflicted ...
by RebelliousSpirit 278 Replies latest members private
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RebelliousSpirit
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confusedjw
I love my husband ... I love my in-laws ... I love the brothers and sisters in our hall ... and I surely love Jehovah and his son Jesus Christ, as well as the many things I have learned about them - but I can't shake this fear of the WTS. What the heck is my problem???
While the people are sincere the WT is, unfortunately a group of men who are trying to LOOK LIKE GOD'S ONLY CHANNEL ON EARTH, but aren't.
Thus the false prophesies, doctrinal mistakes, attacks on anyone who disagrees with them.
Are there good points? Yes, but each cult has it's good points.
Do you want to spread lies? (i.e. that the WT was chosen by God in 1919 or 607 vs 587)
You really must read Crisis of Conscience, the Gentile Times Reconsidered and In Search of Christian Freedom.
For now visit www.607v587.com to see some very eye opening information. Just facts not attacks.
Welcome to JWD. Think about what you are doing before you inculcate your kids into this.
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jgnat
I'd say your instincts are dead-on. Not everything is fine in paradise-land.
Since you have studied and been supportive so far, I think it best you continue to support your husband in his choice. I would, however, back off personally from attending EVERY meeting. Your ten-month-old is too young to sit through all those grinding meetings.
What do to to handle the inevitable pressure? Remind your husband and the elders of your original commitment. Stick to that. Insist they not put any more pressure on you. The ladies at the hall will probably play hot-cold with you, alternatively "missing" you at the meetings, then freezing you out from conversation. This is manipulative, don't fall for it.
As soon as possible, have a conversation with your husband what you will do if you or any of your children are ever in an emergency and need a blood transfusion. How committed is your husband to the prohibitions on blood? These are life-and-death decisions, and both of you need to be on the same page.
We'll talk more at length, if you want. I am also a non-JW married to a Jehovah's Witness. I go to another church down the street. I refuse to think that God would be so exclusive to pick a single organization to "save" people by, when that organization is fundamentally flawed (DF/DA policy, treatment of women)!
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iiz2cool
Your gut seems to be telling you that something is not quite right. Go with your gut.
I won't get into doctrines here, though many of them are easily refuted. But I think the control the JWs take in a person's life can be the most damaging.
The attempt to control begins subtly, and you see it with the pressure to start bringing your kids to meetings. In time, they'll find many things to counsel you about, and they'll do it with a smile to make you feel at ease, and to make you think they really care about you. You'll find the things they counsel you about are very trivial, like your car having 2 doors, your skirt being too short, or showing a little too much cleavage. Men are counselled about the length of their hair, facial hair, and "reaching out" for responsibilities. They'll tell you what movies you can't watch, what kind of music you can't listen to, and they'll tell you to refrain from reading too much "worldly" literature, especially if you're not up to date with your magazines!!! Don't be surprized if they counsel you for taking courses, if you do. And be prepared to have intense opposition from them if your children want to go to college.
If you show any independent thinking you can end up ostracized, even if you're a member in good standing. And, as a woman, you must NEVER question a man in the congregation.
With the JWs, it's ALL about control.
Walter -
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RebelliousSpirit
Remind your husband and the elders of your original commitment. Stick to that. Insist they not put any more pressure on you. The ladies at the hall will probably play hot-cold with you, alternatively "missing" you at the meetings, then freezing you out from conversation. This is manipulative, don't fall for it.
The problem is ... many know that over the months I already strayed from my original committment by starting to study, not celebrating the holidays, and talking about the "what ifs" of the future. And none of that came from being pressured. My husband has always told me that I don't ever have to become a JW, he will always love me. He is definitely a more liberal JW, which is a plus. Even my inlaws have told me countless times that they will love me no matter what I decide. I started studying out of love for Jehovah, and because I want a spiritually strong life for my family. I have been disappointed in the Catholic Church lately - mass is a beautiful ritual, but they lack in so many other departments. I want to actively serve God and put his teachings into practice in my life and in our family life. I don't have a problem with any of that. I tend to put more pressure on myself than anyone has put on me thus far. Even my MIL told me "Don't expect too much of yourself too soon". Everyone has been understanding thus far - save for what I told you about bringing the kids to meetings and the smoking problem.
How committed is your husband to the prohibitions on blood? These are life-and-death decisions, and both of you need to be on the same page.
He is committed to it in that he won't accept blood. But we have talked about it countless times and he has said that even he doesnt know for sure if he could deny our children a transfusion that might save their life.
I would love to talk more ... I am so conflicted.
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Valis
I have been disappointed in the Catholic Church lately - mass is a beautiful ritual, but they lack in so many other departments. I want to actively serve God and put his teachings into practice in my life and in our family life. I don't have a problem with any of that.
Why not try the Unitarians? Eh and drag him with you..They are as close to ever being comfortable around church folk I ever experienced
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AlanF
Like jgnat said, trust your instincts. People are born naturally with bullshit detectors. When yours sounds an alarm, listen to it! The JWs are masters at getting people to ignore their detectors, and it's only those who let their guards down and override their detectors who go on the become full fledged JWs.
One of the things I noted in the Knowledge book was how the writers manipulate the inattentive reader into accepting the claim that JW leaders are THE "faithful and discreet slave" appointed by Jehovah "over all Christ's belongings" in 1919. There's no argument in favor of the claim that such a "faithful slave" even exists. It's just sort of presented as a given. Then the suggestion is made that the people who are bringing you the wonderful material in the book are authorized by that "slave". So if you're gullible enough to swallow such nonsense, you've been sucked in. Thankfully, the majority of people don't get sucked in by such mental manipulation.
Having gone through the Knowledge book in only four months, can you explain how JW leaders are what they claim? I.e., the only men on earth who speak for God, and who comprise a "faithful slave"? Can you do it scripturally? Probably you can't, and I'm sure that that's one of your sources of discomfiture.
Try the same with a number of other JW teachings. Can you explain scripturally why smoking is wrong? Can you explain scripturally why a JW man is allowed to divorce his non-JW wife if he thinks she presents a 'spiritual danger' to him? Can you explain scripturally how it's proper to have two forms of punishment that result in shunning, i.e., disfellowshipping and forcible disassociation? Can you explain the scriptural justification for the JW policy on which blood fractions are forbidden and which are "matters of conscience"?
If you can't explain these things, then you already know that the JWs have no scriptural justification for some major teachings. Therefore, they're not telling you the truth, and you should distance yourself from them as quick as you can.
AlanF
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Buster
A few thoughts:
1. You are not studying. You are being indoctrinated. You are not learning information nearly as much as you are learning a mode of thinking. The goal of teaching you that mode of thinking is so that you will obey the WTS in all things. Tell you what, go look at that little 'knowledge book' on the shelf. Can you believe that you spent four months on that thing? Take another look inside. You should have been able to get thru that thing in a few afternoons - there is nothing deep in there. But you spent all that time learning how to look at an elephant from four inches away. That paragraph-and-an-answer mode is just a way to keep you from seeing the overall themes of the scriptures.
Seriously, take another look inside that book. You didn't learn what you think you leanred.
2. Running into a more conservative elder and his wife sounds like a normal consequence of the 'love bomb.' All cults have this in common. Until now, you have been receiving preferential treatment because you are new. But you are transitioning into a place where they start to expect things. This is the part that never stops. Fast Forward to the day when your children are grown. If any of your immediate family falls away, the others will be pushed to shun them. That damnable organization already wants to start indoctrinating your 10-month old. If you stick around, you'll see their reaction when your youngest cannot sit still. They willl expect you to take him to a back room and discipline him.
3. You're on the tracks. You can hear the train. You can see the train. Save your children for god's sake.
- Cliff
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RebelliousSpirit
You'll find the things they counsel you about are very trivial, like your car having 2 doors, your skirt being too short, or showing a little too much cleavage. Men are counselled about the length of their hair, facial hair, and "reaching out" for responsibilities. They'll tell you what movies you can't watch, what kind of music you can't listen to, and they'll tell you to refrain from reading too much "worldly" literature, especially if you're not up to date with your magazines!!! Don't be surprized if they counsel you for taking courses, if you do. And be prepared to have intense opposition from them if your children want to go to college.
I guess I'm lucky we have a 4-door then. It's funny, I just started wearing shorter skirts to meetings, just for something different. I had been wearing nearly floor length skirts (which is very UNlike me, lol). The one I wore to BS last night was JUST to the knee, barely. My MIL said there was nothing wrong with it. But who knows who it might "stumble" in the hall. Blah!
Movies, music ... yes, that's come up lately. Not in direct relation to us, but in my study. Without thinking I walked into my conductor's house a few weeks ago and announced very loudly "Meet the Fockers is coming out soon, I can't wait!!!" - she just gave me "a look". LOL! However on the flipside, my JW MIL and I went to see that very movie together last week. I can't believe how differently people take the counsel on movies and music!!! It's SO annoying. I asked my conductor if she listens to Tori Amos, who happens to be my favorite. Her response, "I used to". Used to before WHAT? She said that we really should be listening to upbuilding music. And I told her that SOME people can really relate to Tori because we all haven't been so fortunate to live charmed lives. Heh. I definitely don't like the movies and music thing - not that it's a command by the WTS, but suggestions - still, you have to be "mindful" so as not to stumble anyone - when I'd really like to say "If you can't handle it - that's your own tough cr@p!" ::sigh::
Everyone says these things are for our benefit, and that it's not about "control". But being somewhat of a conspiracy theorist, I keep flashing back to Orwell's 1984.
And, as a woman, you must NEVER question a man in the congregation.
There's a tough one for this women's libber. lol! My study conductor once apologized for keeping me from my "wifely duties" because we'd had a long study - she said I should get back to my responsibilies at home. I nearly laughed my @ss off and told her "My husband and I have an understanding. I do what I want, and he lets me" - she nearly fell off her chair.