born again Christians (page 16)

LittleToe

Abaddon:
You may be right, in your summation of the book, however Lewis was atheistic when he became a Christian (became connected). Let's not let that point slide.
He also show's room for manauver, regarding his personal convictions on tolerance, as shown by the above quote.

My point, in bringing this to your attention, is that it highlights that there are highly respected mainstream Christians who have this tolerance. It's not just a JWD-Christian thing. It should hopefully give pause for thought, to those who have pigeon-holed all "born again"s as fundies.

Concerning the original question of this thread:
Born again Christians come in a variety of packages and flavours, hence their belief's will vary widely. They often recognise that being "born again" was just the start of a fantastic journey of exploration of God, self and others. Along that journey their opinions will likely change many times, and guess what? That's allowed!

Probably the fundamental thing they will have in common is a personal connection with God, usually directly attributed to Christ (though I have known some from rigorus Jesus-worshipping backgrounds, who came to it through an awareness of the Father).

Sirona

LittleToe,

Could you also address my post to you?

Sirona

qwerty

Just come back to see if the topic had died after my post yesterday!

You may have read the discussion I started on Out of body experiences. It was based on a program all about people who had experienced having one.

One lady said that she had gone up out of her body, drawn to a white light. She could feel intense love and see people, some of them were family member that had passed away.

She remembers talking to them, asking many questions, one question was which religion is the correct one!

~~Jehovahs Witnesses was the reply.~~ No sorry!

She said that they all found this funny, and said religion does not matter!

Qwerty .............. Mmmmmmmmm!

Dansk

Excuse me all, but am I missing something here - or are the BAs missing it? The BAs are forever speaking about Jesus and how one must accept him into their lives to be saved. Now, I have absolutely NO DOUBT that the BAs here are really nice, genuine people (if any of you know Mouthy's story, you'll know what I'm talking about! Love you, Grace!! )

Ok, here's the bottom line (for the umpteenth time!). I get the impression that you BAs take the gospels literally. You may take the whole Bible as the Word of God (?). However, don't you KNOW how the Bible came to be in existence?! If you did you'd question every book and every scripture. Why? Because IT WAS ORIGINALLY NEVER CONSIDERED INSPIRED BY GOD!! The Christian scriptures were not considered inspired until after 170 CE. The name "New Testament" was only given to a collection of books around 210 CE, by Tertullian. But guess what? In those days the Bible lacked many of the books that are in it now. It was the Church Fathers who decided which books should make up the Bible and whoever was in office at the time, if he didn't like a certain book, it was left out. Then, when another took office, he'd likely change the books again. It was THESE guys who formed the Bible and called it inspired.THE FACT IS, the early Christian Fathers were extremely ignorant and superstitious - people like Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria and Tertullian. Remember the story of the phoenix which was said to renew its life every five hundred years? Do you believe it? Of course not! It's a fable - but Clement of Rome DID believe it and asserted it was typical of the resurrection!! Tertullian believed it, also, and so did Origen!!

What has one got to do to make you realise that the people who put the Bible together were a bunch of cranks and that if one does some serious research (which the Dubs prevented!) one will be AMAZED at the root from whence these "inspired" stories came.

Am I trying to undermine your faith? NO! Am I trying to get to the truth? YES! In other words, how can a BA tell us that we should put our trust in the Jesus of the Bible when the Bible cannot be trusted??? I've already stated that the gospels are not written by whom they're supposed to be - that's a fact! Did you also know that the early Church Fathers quoted as Scripture books which are now called 'Apocryphal'. Some of these have more right to be in today's Bible than the gospels!!

So, if the Bible is not inspired of God, and many of the books are not written by whom we were taught they were written by and even, dare I say it, the character of Jesus himself is considered very spurious, how, then, can we possibly receive salvation by Jesus whom we are taught about from a book that has no genuine credibility?! Sheesh!

For the record, I am not an evolutionist (in the sense that birds came from reptiles, man came from apes, etc) - but I have absolutely no idea how everything came into being. The universe is so completely orderly that Creation seems far more logical tha believing everything suddenly happened. But, I JUST DON'T KNOW!

Now, if you're a BA and happy, fine. But the sort of planks who post that Hellfire exists for those who don't take Jesus to be their saviour is insulting, arrogant and ignorant! These type of people are no better than the worst of Dubs!

Peace and Love to you all,

Dansk

LittleToe

Dansk:
That's a really oooold topic.
There's heaps of information on this site.
For example, I recall having a discussion on the time of writing of Daniel, with JanH back in 2001.

You may find that most of the "born agains" that you are preaching to, on this site, are more than well aware of what you're alluding to. For the most part they are probably more at peace with their beliefs, and those of others, than their detrators.
You are also making assumptions, again, as to what "born again" believers believe regarding the bible. Did you look up Shelby's opinion (AGuest), as I mentioned, earlier in the thread?

You also seem very judgemental of those you are calling "planks". At the end of the day, supposing they are right? There are hellfire scenarios in other religions besides Christianity.
As John Milton wrote:
"The mind is its own place, and of itself
Can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven".

Sirona:
I did, in so far as this thread goes. As for anything more specific, I think we've corresponded on that in the past, haven't we?
If you think I've missed something, would you mind restating it?

Undecided

She remembers talking to them, asking many questions, one question was which religion is the correct one!
~~Jehovahs Witnesses was the reply.~~ No sorry!
She said that they all found this funny, and said religion does not matter!

RE: Out of body experience.

I have a friend that had the exact same experience. He asked the same question and they laughed and said it didn't matter. Wierd.

Ken P.

Sirona

LIttleToe:

You did not address the points I made in my post. I also said:

I'd be interested to know if you really believe that a pagan can make a connection to God.

If you'd rather not respond to that question, just say so, rather than ignoring me.

Sirona

Undecided

Sometimes I wonder what God would do if the Christ figure is just a man made tale. It would be making another God ahead of him, as Jesus says we can't get to God without him.

I really don't see that much evidence in the Christain history to recomend it.

I feel more comfortable giving my attention and thoughts to the creator of the universe rather than a man that was born here like the rest of us.

Ken P.

ozziepost

My "hell" today...here on earth...is one where I am no longer in God's presence.

This is the understanding of hell held by evangelical christians who are found in many denominations or not. (Not an organisation BTW!)

Cheers, Ozzie

MegaDude

I think the issue of eternal hellfire is one every Christian has to grapple seriously with. It's certainly alluded to in all the "Christian" churches I've been in. It's a part of the package that comes with Christianity. The odd thing is when you start asking questions on that topic, just about every BA'er or "Christian" looks ashamed or confused when talking about it. (I'm not saying here on this board.) The reason is obvious. There is not a more horrible reality or fantasy than a torture that lasts eternally and that you can't escape from...even through death. In other words, you're talking about an eternal concentration camp or inquisition where you get to enjoy being burned alive fresh every day in horrible agony. That is the most reprehensible concept I've ever come across in my life. It is a major reason why the Southern Baptist churches I've attended avoid even speaking about it in depth for the most part. The concept just doesn't jell with an all-loving, nuturing Creator god. I would say the hell doctrine has been integral in motivating people to become Jehovah's Witnesses or go looking for their spiritual walk in the New Age churches and other faith walks, or abandon Christianity all together. Certainly the hell doctrine was the single most motivating factor in my mother becoming a Jehovah's Witness. So I have a criticism of the Christian church in that it has essentially given up exploring if this doctrine even relates to what the Bible says, but also (in my personal experience) avoids the topic in depth at church because they are seemingly ashamed or confused by it. It's tradition now. And tradition in ANY faith is almost never discarded.

born again Christians

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