born again Christians (page 18)

LittleToe

Dansk / Sirona:
I've already stated my opinion, so far as I wish to express it, regarding hell, non-Christians, and the bible. I've been far more explicit in other threads, and I believe in "thread discipline".
The answer, from my perspective, to the original question is: Born again Christians can't be pigeon-holed into a single belief set.

I'm afraid that I feel no desire to make a "public statement". I'm happy to discuss those kind of things one to one, where I can guage the response, and see if I'm causing offense by my poorly chosen words. However, in this medium...

Again, you've painted "born agains" with a brush, saying that they are "vague".
Just because you don't get a JW style consensus, nor are spoon-fed with the "black and white" categoric answers that you desire, doesn't mean that we don't hold opinions.
Sometimes we are just wise enough to hold our tongues, instead of getting painted into corners.

Too often I've seen people make statements, on this board, then have those opinions waved in their face at a later date due to a change (or growth) in opinion.
We're human, with the ability to reason as more data is fed in, hence we're allowed to have shifting or unsolidified viewpoints IMHO.

If you want REALLY straight answers, wait until later this month, at the Fest.

MegaDude

Is a pagan connected to God? Was a BA'er, who was once a Jehovah's Witness, always connected to God even when they were a JW? I certainly believe it's possible.

Being connected to God depends on the person. Not the particular brand name of their current religious affiliation, which for many changes during the course of their life. That's how it's been for me. I have always felt connected.

Sirona

LT

I strongly disagree with you expressing your comments to Dansk / Sirona as though we're one entity.

What I have posted and what Dansk has posted have been entirely separate. Dansk chose to quote my comments to get a response from you on something that he asked.

I posted my opinion on something you said, and reading between the lines I thought you were accepting of other faiths but believe in the superiority of the Christian path. That is just what I thought, of course I could be way off. That is why I asked for further clarification on your feelings about other religions (in particular mine...pagan). If you didn't want to respond in here on this thread, or indeed, at all, then that would be fine by me. My gripe was that you didn't reply to me at all.

When you didn't respond to me at all, I felt a little bit put out, because it is common courtesy to address a post made directly to you. Then when I reminded you that you hadn't answered my post, you chose to say "I answered the questions", which in fact you hadn't.

You say:

Again, you've painted "born agains" with a brush, saying that they are "vague".
Just because you don't get a JW style consensus, nor are spoon-fed with the "black and white" categoric answers that you desire, doesn't mean that we don't hold opinions.
Sometimes we are just wise enough to hold our tongues, instead of getting painted into corners.

Comments such as these should have been directed at Dansk, and not myself, because I haven't said any of those things. As far as holding your tongue, a simple "I'd rather answer that another time, Sirona" would have sufficed.

You chose to participate in this thread and make comment about your own beliefs. I don't understand how you can feel put out because some people ask you certain questions. We are all free to say "I don't want to answer that", but by making certain comments you've prompted more specific questions from other posters.

Sirona

Dansk

Andi,

Let me reiterate

Andi, I admire your honesty.

You said "I don't know". That's good enough for me.

LT

Sometimes we are just wise enough to hold our tongues, instead of getting painted into corners.

Here's the problem, you see, you mention "we", but I don't get the same "vibes" from Andi as I do from you. She admits she doesn't know, but you come across as "knowing!"

Too often I've seen people make statements, on this board, then have those opinions waved in their face at a later date due to a change (or growth) in opinion.

You mean you can change? YO!

We're human, with the ability to reason as more data is fed in, hence we're allowed to have shifting or unsolidified viewpoints IMHO.

Well, IMHO, I think you've skirted away from answering - BUT

If you want REALLY straight answers, wait until later this month, at the Fest.

Be prepared to be AMBUSHED! But where's the Fest being held?

OK, Toe, you're welcome at my house any time and I believe you already know that! You've got my personal addy so message me if you like.

Dansk

MegaDude

Yeppers, what Joy said. I would highly recommend The Myth of Certainty by Daniel Taylor. Brilliant book by an insightful Christian.

If you're interested on an exhaustive study on the topic of hell and the Bible, I would recommend The Fire that Consumes by Edward Fudge.

JT

I think the issue of eternal hellfire is one every Christian has to grapple seriously with. It's certainly alluded to in all the "Christian" churches I've been in. It's a part of the package that comes with Christianity. The odd thing is when you start asking questions on that topic, just about every BA'er or "Christian" looks ashamed or confused when talking about it. (I'm not saying here on this board.) The reason is obvious. There is not a more horrible reality or fantasy than a torture that lasts eternally and that you can't escape from...even through death. In other words, you're talking about an eternal concentration camp or inquisition where you get to enjoy being burned alive fresh every day in horrible agony. That is the most reprehensible concept I've ever come across in my life. It is a major reason why the Southern Baptist churches I've attended avoid even speaking about it in depth for the most part. The concept just doesn't jell with an all-loving, nuturing Creator god. I would say the hell doctrine has been integral in motivating people to become Jehovah's Witnesses or go looking for their spiritual walk in the New Age churches and other faith walks, or abandon Christianity all together. Certainly the hell doctrine was the single most motivating factor in my mother becoming a Jehovah's Witness. So I have a criticism of the Christian church in that it has essentially given up exploring if this doctrine even relates to what the Bible says, but also (in my personal experience) avoids the topic in depth at church because they are seemingly ashamed or confused by it. It's tradition now. And tradition in ANY faith is almost never discarded.

now this point is deep, for it is so true, almost all christian faith play around with the hell fire concept in the last 20yrs or so it is almost impossible to hear of a big time preacher - preaching on folks going to hell, instead we see them dance around with this new "Hell" it is your life here on earth, etc when in fact we all know how the story is told, you boy with the horn, pitch fork, and roasting you day and night with Heinz BBQ sauce- i agree with your argument 110% most folks are almost ashame to admit that his dogma is in their bag of dogmas it is sorta like geting a jw to talk about 1975

Dansk

Hey Sirona,

Dansk / Sirona as though we're one entity.

This isn't a Trinity coming on here, is it?

CU at the Fest, where we can jump LT!

Dansk

Sirona

LT

I've been far more explicit in other threads, and I believe in "thread discipline".

You're not allowed to state your particular beliefs in this thread because you've said it in another?

I'm sure we've all stated our religious opinions more than once in the last 18 months. Who is going to trawl over the history of threads to see what LTs opinion on "such and such" is? Why not just ask you here and have it all as part of the discussion?

Sirona

Dansk,

This isn't a Trinity coming on here, is it?

LOL, bagsie being the female aspect of the trinity ....don't wanna be a bloke!

CU at the Fest, where we can jump LT!

Hey, it wouldn't be the first time I've thought about jumping LT

Sirona

Dansk

Why not just ask you here and have it all as part of the discussion?

Tried that!

Dansk

born again Christians

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