Posts by Juan Viejo2

15

Are the Dubs going back to the KH again? (Covid-19)

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

any takers?

Juan Viejo2

From what I've heard and seen, most of the Kingdom Halls have been sold off to non-Witness buyers and other churches. In Oregon, where I live, only about one out of five Kingdom Halls in larger cities are still in the ownership of the Watchtower. Most of the others have been sold off to other churches or private parties or businesses.

Those who are are left among the remaining JWs must travel some distance. Then they sit in a mostly empty auditorium and watch a video play on a screen - that they could have watched at home (and maybe already had seen before their meeting.)

If you remember, a few years back I was in the middle (or muddle) of the Menlo Park Kingdom Hall fiasco. While I was never inside the building itself, and never was face to face with the two major principles involved, I was somehow drawn in and asked to report (and in some cases get involved in some minor ways) on what was really happening from the original elders' points of view. That building is now owned and used by a Spanish language and Hispanic "holy roller" style evangelical church.

But sadly even though I drove to the community, personally visited the Kingdom hall and others surrounding that area, I never fully gained the trust of the principles enough for them to actually meet with me and provide me with more background information. I made it clear that I was mostly on their side of the fiasco and was looking forward to printing updates and background information on my website that would both clarify and support their positions and experiences.

It was an exercise in futility as far as I was concerned. I really wanted to get the word out to their supporters. I got a lot of inquiries from local press reporters who thought I might be able to help them report what was going on. I gave several of them the names and phone numbers I had that might help them make the connections and help with their reporting. Several San Francisco-based reporters were hoping that I could give them more insight into what was going on. But when I told them that I had both been drawn in and ignored by the ex-elders, they made it clear that they didn't have the time to waste on a relatively insignificant situation that really did not affect any other citizens or their readers. The San Franciso papers seemed to be somewhat afraid of getting into a tangle with the Watchtower - at least at the street-reporter levels and their bosses.

Looking back from a JW and ex-JW viewpoint, this event ranks right up with the famed abuse case that was going on in northern California at the same time that exposed the depth and damage of JW child abuse cases.

A few months after I had returned to my home in Oregon, I began getting strange calls from several people that claimed to have "insider information" about what really happened in Menlo Park. Twice I drove down to that area to try to make a connection in response to their "If you can come down here by X date and meet with some of us, we will be willing to share our experiences and information." In almost every case, I agreed to reconnect with them and set up a meeting with them at some remote restaurant or motel - and never reveal their real names or descriptions. There was one contact that urged me to come down the area and meet with him. First, it was going to be at the motel I was staying at - and I actually got an anonymous call on the motel phone (I was obviously being tracked) and told to meet at a shopping center some miles away the next day. I agreed to meet with them as per their instructions. I was there with time to spare - but no one ever showed up (or made themselves know to me.) I returned to the hotel and got another invitation phone call to do the same thing the next day. So the next day I checked out of the motel, loaded up my stuff, grabbed my camera, and returned to the shopping center as requested. My phone rang and I was asked if I was at the shopping center. I confirmed that I was and that I would be there for at least 30 minutes. I waited for an hour and no one showed up. At that point, I realized that they were just playing with me and trying to frustrate me or stoke my anger. I just called my wife and told her that I would be home (in Oregon) later that night.

To say I was disappointed would be an understatement. But my disappointment was due to the unexplainable disregard for my time, my expenses, and my willingness to help report the facts from their point of view. Why? What did they have to gain by jerking my chain and giving me that type of a "kiss-off."

So, as we now know, the Menlo Park Kingdom Hall story was just a small part and the beginning of a major restructure and destruction of the Watchtower that was to come and expand just a few months later.

-------------------------------

I take no pleasure at all in reporting my experiences in trying to connect with the members of the Menlo Park Kingdom Hall. It was almost like other times when the saying "No good deed goes unpunished" applied to JW-related events that I was unexpectedly drawn into and then wished later that I had just stayed out of the whole thing and let fate take its own course.

But I do not like to see innocent or unaware people hurt, abused, or taken advantage of by others who are greedy or just have "black hearts." The Menlo Park Kingdom Hall" outrage was one of those times - and will (if I have anything to say) be a black mark on the Watchtower's reputation for as long as they continue to exist.

JV

39

ExElder Friend Had To Go To His Former Kingdom Hall and this what he told me!

by minimus in

jw
friends

he was the secretary before he resigned years ago.

he has a business that kept him involved with the kingdom hall.

the hall was sold to another church.

Juan Viejo2

Attenition readers and GrreatTeacher ...7 days ago

You write above ... "Wealth of information if you type Menlo Park into the search function on this site. Just re-reading some of it.

"Multimillion dollar property owned by the local congregation and the CO wanted it sold. Elders would not agree since the congregation held the title. CO had them all removed and disfellowshipped and the congregation was disbanded."

UPDATE:

I am sure that this is covered on other pages of this forum, but the Menlo Park Kingdom Hall was abandoned, gutted of all furniture (according to some contacts that were members), and eventually sold to a Hispanic / Mexican Protestant Church. There was a YouTube video of that church and one of its meetings (and it may still be on YouTube), but I could not find it when I recently looked.

Other sources connected to that location contacted me at various times and tried to give me more information or updates. While some left me cryptic messages and clues, I never was able to put the whole story together. But the fact is that the events surrounding the sale of that particular property lit the match that set off the Watchtower's eventual sell off of most of its US Kingdom Halls and many in other countries as well since that event.

What was funny about that whole situation was that the Watchtower's local big shots moved a congregation located just north of Menlo Park into Menlo Park's hall, and then kicked out the local elders and put in the elders from the other congregation. I do not know the status of all those elders, but I was informed that one of them (the eldest among them, I believe) recently passed away. He never stopped believing "the Truth." I had a very brief chance to meet him personally and he was very cordial, but was uncomfortable because I was "an apostate."

The whole Menlo Park situation was created by the Watchtower's local leaders. The existing congregation and its elders were not doing anything at all that cast a bad image on Jehovah, the existing membership, or even the Watchtower itself. If the Watchtower had been above board and honest about what it was trying to do, I am positive that local relocation and modifications could have been made over a short time and to the benefit of most of the members. But instead, the Watchtower used a heavy hand, damaged the reputation of the existing elders, and then bullied the members of the congregation. I've been working on a book about that incident for a couple of years, but due to other obligations and health issues, it will probably be spring of 2021 before I'll be ready to publish on Amazon. If and when I do, I will let everyone know.

My main point is that Menlo Park was the warning to all Jehovah's Witnesses that sometime in the near future all of their Kingdom Halls would be stolen and sold off - with all of the assets and money going directly to the Watchtower Society. And now we are watching (as regularly reported on YouTube by "Mike and Kim") the Watchtower Society selling off all of their assets in the USA, Canada, and much of Europe, as fast as they can. Rumors are that they will move the main headquarters to South America and run everything worldwide from there. Time will tell.

JV

7

What sites do you recommend?

by DATA-DOG in

i have a friend who would like to write an article all about the failure of jwism to protect children.

what sites do you think i could direct them too without sending them down a rabbit hole of craziness??

i’m definitely sending them to trey bundy’s articles.

Juan Viejo2

DATA-DOG: While I must disclose that I participate and assist in the presentation of the following website, Barbara Anderson's WatchtowerDocuments.org has been around for nearly two decades. She's been keeping her readers up to date on the latest news involving the Watchtower and its leaders. But she also focuses on the latest Child Abuse cases, organizational changes, and some Watchtower personalities and critics. In addition, her site also contains a lot of history, background, and insider information and history that is not easy to find in many other sites. She also has a page with descriptions and links to other similar quality websites that approach the same subjects.

10

Why would this Dolt kiss the WTs A$$

by tresdecu in

jw
friends

this dude must have family that are jws...i can't imagine any "journalist" doing a piece on the wt and not highlighting any of their scandals.

the public does not care about jws why waste any time on them.. (link is video of interview with wt spokesidiot re: conventions, covid etc).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eukusjplzg&feature=share&fbclid=iwar1-7dluc_2poqucnxxfj2eok-gdzfpp0adkifxzdpswjnn1ituseosn5ja.

Juan Viejo2

I have to agree that the aforementioned video looked pretty hoaky and prepped and really had nothing more to offer the rest of society. Watchtower propaganda rarely accurately portrays what really happens behind the scenes at WT HQ, or their real intentions. They've switched from getting the word [Truth] out and delivering the latest flyer or magazine to the public, and now just want to look like they are involved in the "preaching work" when they are mostly detached from it. Can you imagine Jesus or any of his disciples just sitting under a tree or against a building and not saying anything to non-believers and regular Jews as they walked by? And yes, the host of the video is suspect not only because of his connection to the WT org (even though he is presented as being an unbiased reporter/commentator.) The Watchtower will surely claim that "millions attended their annual meeting remotely." My best guess is that the rank and file JWs will watch parts of the sessions while napping on their couches at home or sitting on their deck or patio. At least that way they will actually be doing something healthy and productive.

JV

32

What the Heck are they talking about in todays meeting 7-19-20 Wife in full on cult mode

by goingthruthemotions in

so what the heck are they brainwashing today in the meeting or what ever.

she is in full on cult mode talking about the end of the world.

she asked me to listen to a couple of talks and i respectfully declined.

Juan Viejo2

A former acquaintance of mine many years ago told me his story about how he finally escaped the JW Borg.

His wife was clearly (to him) a fully involved and dedicated JW. So when he finally finished (secretly) reading a few books and watching some ex-JW YouTube videos - he was convinced he had to leave. There was no going back for him. He knew that he would have to admit to his wife that he could no longer stomach the JW bullcrap.

One night after dinner and before they started watching TV, he was helping her wash dishes when he said, "I want to leave." At first, she was very quiet. But then she asked him, "What do you mean? Do you want to leave me?"

"No, I don't want to leave you. I love you. But I can't go to any more meetings or watch any more JW.org videos I just can't and you needed to know that." They both stood at the sink and finished the dishes. Then she turned to him and said...

"Thank God! I was trying to figure out how to tell you that I wanted to leave and never go back to the Kingdom Hall. I was so scared you'd get angry and maybe want to divorce me. But I've been hating every minute going to meetings and watching JW.org for nearly a year. What a relief to hear you say that."

And that was that. They just stopped going. They threw out all of their old magazines and books and everything. After a couple of weeks, they got a call from one of the elders. The husband took the phone from his wife and said, "The Watchtower is bogus. Everything is a lie. They are just trying to control us and take our money. I've realized that since you guys started selling our Kingdom Hall and no literature was being printed anymore. We're leaving and we're leaving for good. While I still think of you and the other brothers and sisters as friends, I am willing to lose my friendship with all of you as long as you continue to be Witnesses. We're not angry. We're not mad. We're not confused. We're just done being Jehovah's Witnesses. Thank you for inquiring about us, but please do not call us again as long as you continue to be a JW."

"A clean break. Final and clear. No anger, no regrets, no animosity. Just goodbye, we're done, and we're not coming back."

I'll remember him telling me that story forever. In my head I could just see him "cutting the cord" and walking away, never looking back.

JV

15

Latest Trick by You know Who!

by ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara in

jw
friends

this is getting thrown about a lot to me from various jdumbs.. .

also got the perfect answer as retort!

beat that you jdumb morons!.

Juan Viejo2

ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara I was thinking exactly the same thing.

If the Watchtower was given some inside information about a coming disaster in New York City and surrounds, why wouldn't they share that with all of their local members and have them move out of the area.

Let's face it: They only wanted to sell those valuable buildings to get the money. It's not important where the Watchtower HQ actually is located, because it simply does not matter. They're not shipping huge pallets of magazines and books across country. They've become an internet and TV related organization, just like the evangelists and Bible-thumpers who have been making themselves millionaires for decades.

Jehovah and Jesus have no part in the Watchtower's day to day activities or decisions. It's all about the money, Honey!!!

27

2020-04-10 Congregation Donations by Electronic Funds Transfer!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

well as usual, the watchtower wants to make sure the rank & file keep the money coming in.

even if the jw's have nothing to eat.. 2020-04-10--congregation donations by electronic funds transfer.

https://docdro.id/himg31q.

Juan Viejo2

I remember that when I was a teenager and a very active JW, we had to purchase our magazines for 3 cents each and usually get 20 to 40 to cover our service hours for the next two weeks. Hardbound books were 30 to 50 cents each and NWT Bibles were usually $2 and up depending on the covers.

We were encouraged to buy up all of the remaining stock before buying new editions and just give them away if we couldn't place them outright. So we would often offer three magazines (one new WT, one new Awake! and one older magazine for 10 cents or whatever the householders would offer. We were still doing annual subscriptions for $1 a year per WT and or Awake! and they were coming out every two weeks. That was a good deal.

Now that the Watchtower has transitioned from a publishing company to an entertainment outlet, everything has changed. So now it is up to the JWs themselves to keep digging into their pockets and keeping the WT afloat.

Juan Viejo

35

I think Limbaugh is out and out wrong on this

by JimmyYoung in

i listen to rush most days for entertainment.

i agree with him on some issues and disagree on others.

but today he said something i believe is an out and out lie.

Juan Viejo2

I get my annual flu shots at my local Rite-Aid store. They always check with my primary physician and my cardiologist before approving it. I usually wander around the store for a few minutes while they check and then they call my name. It takes about 15-20 minutes altogether and the shots are covered by my medical insurance.

Most of the time the annual flu shots are combinations that cover all the common and expected strains for the coming year. Some are just boosters that extend the coverage for shots you had the previous season.

Because I have heart issues, my regular physician will always check with my cardiologist it she thinks that a new version might have consequences. So far I've not encountered any problems getting any annual new or booster shots. I've not suffered any major colds or flues over the past 15 years thanks to my doctors and Rite-Aid being on top of this.

I am hopeful that our current scientists and doctors will come up with a flu shot or combination shot that will reduce the chance that we get the Corona strain later this year and in future years. Remember that they have to get a broad sample of antibodies from prior flu survivors in order to create a preventive injection mix that can be counted on to work for most people.

I used to listen to Rush Limbaugh way back in the day and thought he was on the mark most of the time. But in those days he was more of a general reporter and commentator on the news. When he began to swing far to the right because he was carried by mostly uber-Republican leaning radio stations and he was trying to prove that the "left-wingers" were trying to take him down in order to cover up his drug abuse and other indiscretions.

Recently, I had to make a car trip from my home on the west coast to Colorado to visit with my brother prior to his passing. One of the few radio stations I could get out in the wide-open spaces in Utah and Colorado was Rush's show. I was shocked at how far to right he had actually gone since I last listened to him. It was almost like his script and talking points were written by our most high President Trump himself. Even some of the word combinations did not sound like Rush at all, but rather by something dictated directly by Trump.

My comments are not party related as I have been both a registered Republican (Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan x 2) and have tended to lean conservative most of my adult life, but have also voted Democrat at times when I thought the candidate was more in line with my thinking. But our current President's approach to voting rights and dealing with the Corona virus are inexplicable and can not be supported. That has nothing to do with his party or whether he is favored by Rush Limbaugh or not. His positions on health issues are just dangerious.

17

Are the JWs are doing field service while corona?

by iliketreasure in

hey guys,.

i'm out of the jws for 12 years now and stopped thinking about the whole thing a long time ago.. but recently, i wondered how jws deal with corona?

i've read on the forums that they suspended meetings and tried to hold them online.. but are they still doing field service?.

Juan Viejo2

I have Arlo security cameras all around my home in Oregon. They have been up for almost 4 years. Two cameras cover the front of my home and our street. The cameras have been active 24 hours a day since installation.

Four years ago, right after the installation of the camera system, it captured an SUV that parked across the street from my home. There were 5 people in that vehicle. Apparently there was a second vehicle a block or so to the east of my house and out of the range of my cameras.

The cameras recorded the SUV while it was parked around 11 AM. About 20 minutes later two men finally got out of the vehicle. One went to a home across the street. Another fellow crossed the street toward my house. He stood there and looked at the front of my house for about 5 minutes and then walked to the southeast and disappeared. A couple of minutes later my camera recorded him climbing back into the vehicle.

About ten minutes later, a young JW woman and an elderly man appeared in front of my house. He wanted to come to knock on my door, but she told him not to try. She was looking at a notebook at the time. They then proceeded to the other house next door. While my camera did not film them, it heard the young lady tell the older man not to knock - but only leave a pamphlet at the other house. They then walked back past my home and disappeared. Five minutes later, the first SUV full of JWs drove past my house and disappeared up the next street. I did not see the other car leave the neighborhood in that direction.

That was the last time any JWs have ever come near my home. Four years - nothing - not even an invitation to the Memorial or to a local assembly at our state fairgrounds held every year. There is clearly not a lot of door-to-door preaching going on anymore - at least not in this region.

JV

23

need input: Asked my wife to show me in the bible where Christ became King in 1914

by goingthruthemotions in

so my wife is so diluted and brainwashed.

during this time she is having so much anxiety, mainly because me and my son's want nothing to do with the religion.. so the discussion was, i told her will never go back because they go way beyond what the bible teaches all the time.

i brought up overlapping generation, 607 and then i told her...show me where in the bible that jesus returned invisbly in 1914 and started ruling?

Juan Viejo2

It was sometime in the fall of 1964 (my memory is disappearing, but I think that is about right) that my wife (converted to JW the year before [raised a Catholic]) and I (an active JW since the age of eight) met a nice couple while doing door-to-door preaching in Riverside, California. (You like that long and convoluted sentence?)

After our normal presentation and answering a few questions offered up by the wife at the door. She seemed to be in awe of my quick responses. Her husband joined the conversation shortly afterward and invited us into their apartment. We did not sit down, but he quickly asked me a couple of softball questions. I don't remember what they were, but I seemed to have provided quick and credible answers that appeared to really impress him. He invited us back one night later that week to have a "Bible Study" with him and his wife.

We selected the current study book and focused on the first two chapters. We underlined significant parts that we wanted to emphasize during our new Bible study. This would be the first time my wife had been engaged in a field Bible study with me.

[Those of you who were JWs in that era probably experienced the same format that we all used when conducting "Bible studies with householders." JWs from that era will likely recognize our situation and the set-up. Newbies may not realize that in those days the whole "home Bible Study" process was very scripted. Any deviation was frowned upon by the "Kingdom Hall servants" and the "society."]

So we showed up at the appointed time. I was wearing a suit and tie; my wife was in a very nice dress and heels. We were prepared and ready to make two new converts to Jehovah's "number one favorite religion." [Yeah, that one...]

After sitting down at their dinner table, I suggested that I lead the four of us in prayer. [After all, I was the "senior" Bible expert among the group.] Instead, the wife suggested that since we were guests in their home, her husband should say the prayer. [Oh, oh!?!] He agreed and immediately began to pray. We all bowed our heads and clasped each others' hands as the prayer progressed.

While I do not remember anything specific about his prayer, I do recall that it was relatively short and to the point and included pleas to God to "enlighten us all "and not restrict us to any particular subject, but rather to have all of us to group together with "open minds." I was impressed [and intimidated a bit] after his prayer was finished.

The man's wife asked mine how long she had been a JW. "About a year. I was raised a Catholic," she responded. The husband asked me the same question. I replied, "Ten years." That's the way the rest of the evening went. The two of them turned our static "Bible Study" into a face-to-face question and answer exercise.

Most Jehovah's Witnesses (both past and present) would simply have stopped what they were doing and try to exit as quickly as possible and just write the evening off as a failed attempt - but more like having been set up by the couple. My wife and I decided to stick it out and see what happened.

What happened was that I never again looked at being a JW the same way after that evening. My wife actually became more active than I over the next year or two. I slowly began to rethink things and reconsider spending the rest of my life as an active JW. I realized how formal and unnatural the whole JW Bible Study process was (and still is). I realized how difficult it was to really explain and support JW teachings about 1914, the 144,000 going to heaven, "life everlasting in a paradise earth."

I do remember a set of questions that the fellow asked me during our "Bible Study" and it has stuck with me ever since...

"OK - 144,000 are sucked up into heaven. What do they do up there? Why would they want to go up there? Does God need Jesus, his angels, and also 144,000 more newbies all worshipping him constantly to keep his ego boosted? What about those who live in the new world? After they turn the earth into a paradise and their kids grow up - do they still preach to each other? Spend most of their free time petting lions and tigers? Spend most of the day praying to Jehovah? Do they ask for forgiveness of their sins - when they no longer commit sins? Going to Yellowstone Park is a real pleasure for a short vacation, but would I want to live in that environment for eternity? How boring would that be?"

Let's just say that my wife and I tossed and turned in our beds for the rest of that week. We were really shaken by the experience. We had long conversations about what happened and how helpless we were to answer those questions posed by our hosts. It took all of my zeal for door-to-door service and conducting Bible Studies and just flushed them out of my system.

While we both continued as active JWs for a while (I was totally out about a year later; she left five or six years later after our divorce (I was DF'd three years later for inactivity and failure to attend meetings.)

But I can trace everything that changed my life from being a dedicated JW back to that experience. I found real personal and mental freedom thanks to that second "Bible Study" visit with a young, bright, and engaging young couple who wouldn't let me conduct a boring, static, one-sided attempt to convert them and change their lives.

"Juan V"