Posts by flipper

47

Are we participants in this forum because of bouts of "loneliness"?

by Wonderment in

i wonder how many of us here hold on to this meeting place out of "loneliness.

could it be that we harbor feelings of "abandonment" and "loneliness" from being left cold and dry by the wt people and our families?

perhaps we do have a need to reach out to people with similar experiences.

flipper

WONDERMENT- This is an excellent thread, thanks for posting it. I do come here to receive support and give support and friendship back. Like some others here have stated - yes- I am very lonely at times kind of in a universal sense . I mean I have a loving wife ( who was never a JW ) who has helped a lot with getting over the cult and it's phobia's - but being raised by a strict elder dad and not exiting the Witnesses until age 44 over 12 years ago - has really done a number on my self esteem at times. I was always made to feel by my elder dad and older elder brother that I never measured up to amount to anything. And I was never acknowledged from either of them for doing anything of value in my life. Fortunately I received tons of compliments from my mom who is the one who built up my self esteem that my dad tore down.

Not to get too wordy in giving a psychological analysis of myself - LOL - I have been " dumped " by both of my JW daughters 28 and 27 years old - so far I still have not been allowed to see my only grandchild , my JW daughters new boy and he is a month old. Even in spite of sending my daughter a gift card with $ 100.00 in it- no thank you, no acknowledgment whatsoever. I have a great relationship with my 30 year old non-JW son and we are close- but he lives about 2 hours away and is busy with work and college which I'm happy for. So yes, I feel a sense of huge loss with my two daughters- it's been about 12 years since they've done anything close to " association " with me doing something fun like most " normal " families do.

I only had a couple close JW friends when I was in and those relationships are long gone now too the last 10 years or so. For which I'm thankful as they were " conditional" relationships based on whether I attended meetings or got back in the cult. Which ain't gonna happen. But this board was really a lifeline for me and I've made so many great friends here with many of you wonderful people so yes this board really assists me in my feelings of loneliness and helps rebuild my self esteem to see that I do have something valuable to offer.

My wife would often wonder why I had some doubts about how other people viewed me and I tell her it was because the JW cult sucked out my self confidence. So I worked hard over the years to restore my self confidence and trust that do have valuable assets and qualities that I can give back to people in my life not only here to people but other non-JW's in my life as well. Playing guitar and writing songs these last 4 years has been a REAL help in my healing process as well.

A deep thank you to Simon for this board and Wonderment for the thread. Simon- You don't even realize how many lives you have changed and/or saved by keeping this board going- including my life my friend - keep the great , beautiful work up - you are saving and changing lives for the better. O.K. I better stop writing as I'm starting to tear up now. The Flipper softy part of me is getting exposed. LOL

4

Another JW Pedo

by wannaexit in

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/132061/filipino-in-hawaii-gets-1-year-prison-term-for-molesting-boy#ixzz3s0obqim9.

flipper

It's disgusting that this piece of filth child molester is only getting one year in prison. There needs to be stricter sentences in Hawaii and elsewhere for sure

9

Leah Remini's book, "Troublemaker"

by DisArmed in

just finished leah remini's book, "troublemaker.

" very good book that easily resonates, i'm sure, with anyone who has exited a cult.

her life in scientology and eventual exit was a nightmare.

flipper

We saw the 20/20 interview with Leah and it was very exposing about the abuses, similar to " Going Clear " on HBO but not as long time wise. I'm definitely going to purchase this book and read of her experiences. It may indeed give me some ideas about eventually reaching my JW daughters still in the JW 's. Peace out, Mr. Flipper.

44

Decrease of numbers in Jehovah's Witnesses via Deaths, DFings, or Turning Inactive

by flipper in

jw
friends

so i'm sure a good number of us saw the chart that i believe the poster splash put on another thread of figures since 1990 regarding how many baptized and % of increase each year .

i started analyzing it ( and i know some referred to it briefly on the other thread ) and guessing of reasons the % of increase didn't match the number of newly baptized.

and of course common sense tells us that either jw's leave the cult each year through death, fading into inactivity, or getting dfed.

flipper

Thanks for the comments ! And especially a thanks to THE GIRL NEXT DOOR for making the chart more legible into a much neater chart than I did in the initial thread ! LOL !

CRAZYGUY- That's a very good question that you ask . I'm not sure if a person is just counted only once as a publisher - but- just separately counted as a person newly baptized or if both are counted in the increase. It is kind of confusing. I'm honestly not sure how they count it. Maybe someone can clue us in on it.

HOSER- Yeah. I've heard that the WT Society fudges on lots of the numbers. Wow, with those attendance figures you shared- it really shows that the numbers attending are definitely going down.

DBQ 407- That's interesting to see what you say about baptism numbers going way down at assemblies now. I haven't attended meetings or assemblies since 2003 so I'm really out of the loop as far as knowing what the attendance or baptism figures are. But like you say I remember years ago that yes- about 25 or so would get baptized each circuit assembly that I attended and now about 0 - 4 ? That's quite a drop , thanks for sharing that info.

LISA ROSE- That's interesting what you say about the mortality rate per 100,000 people each year in the U.S. I'll have to figure that out. Thanks !

HEAVEN- So you've had a lot of JW family that's died over the last 40 years + or so. My condolences to you on your losses. Interesting. I'm just curious how the deceased numbers stack up against those exiting while still alive ? I'll have to add up Lisa Rose's suggestions.

POSSOM- That's another very valid question that you ask - " Do they inactive/faders as actually leaving if they don't leave officially through disassociation or dfing ? Another very good question I don't have the answer to.

THE GIRL NEXT DOOR- Thank you so much for providing the clear reading chart done much better than mine for sure ! Good job. Thanks for the clarification of being inactive for 6 months putting a person into the exit column. That makes sense. Thanks, Peace out, Mr. Flipper

44

Decrease of numbers in Jehovah's Witnesses via Deaths, DFings, or Turning Inactive

by flipper in

jw
friends

so i'm sure a good number of us saw the chart that i believe the poster splash put on another thread of figures since 1990 regarding how many baptized and % of increase each year .

i started analyzing it ( and i know some referred to it briefly on the other thread ) and guessing of reasons the % of increase didn't match the number of newly baptized.

and of course common sense tells us that either jw's leave the cult each year through death, fading into inactivity, or getting dfed.

flipper

O.K. So I'm sure a good number of us saw the chart that I believe the poster Splash put on another thread of figures since 1990 regarding how many baptized and % of increase each year . I started analyzing it ( and I know some referred to it briefly on the other thread ) and guessing of reasons the % of increase didn't match the number of newly baptized. And of course common sense tells us that either JW's leave the cult each year through death, fading into inactivity, or getting DFed. So they stop reporting field service time. If you subtract the amount of increase from the number who were baptized I believe it gives a good picture of how many possibly exited each year via death, Dfing, or inactivity

If there are other ways they eliminate themselves from the mix please let me know ( like become aliens or something Joking ) . So I just wanted to post these numbers and invite comments from you folks to see what you think :

Year Inc. Bptzd, Exiting or Deaths

1990-1991 261, 607 300,945 39,338

1991-1992 193,967 301,002 107,035

1992-1993 237,102 296,004 58,902

1993-1994 204,205 314,818 110,613

1994-1995 285,801 338,491 52,690

1995-1996 213,874 366,579 152,705

1996-1997 186,162 375,923 189,761

1997-1998 288,719 316,092 27,373

1998-1999 23,842 323,439 299,597

1999-2000 123,072 288,907 165,835

2000-2001 82,102 263,431 181,329

2001-2002 186,979 265,469 78,490

2002-2003 124,706 258,845 134,139

2003-2004 83,781 262,416 178,635

2004-2005 100,697 247,631 146,934

2005-2006 127,615 248,327 120,712

2006-2007 216,410 298,304 81,894

2007-2008 166,589 289,678 123,089

2008-2009 188,730 276,233 87,503

2009-2010 194,877 294,368 99,491

2010-2011 150,969 263,131 112,162

2011-2012 123,327 268,777 145,450

2012-2013 183,608 277,344 93,736

2013-2014 235,591 275,581 39,990

2014-2015 18,560 260,273 241,713

So if you add up all the figures in the exiting column the last 25 years via DFing, inactivity, or deaths it adds up to a total of : 3,069,116 people who have left the JW cult the last 25 years through either death, DFing, or inactivity. I'm not sure how many of those are deaths- but I would assume it does not make up the greater portion of the 3 million number.

I find it interesting that the highest exiting number occurred right after the 1995 debacle of the " generation " teaching fiasco and the 2nd highest number exiting came this last year after so much negative Internet WT Society news . So as always I invite any and all of your comments. This by no means is anything other than my own private numbers research for my own curiosity- so I'm not saying it means anything other than it appears the WT Society and JW's are losing members at a faster clip than I'm sure they want. I look forward to your comments. Peace & love to you all, Mr. Flipper

51

My first post

by thewalker in

jw
friends

hi, i just joined the board and wanted to present myself.. i'm active, in fact very active in congregation activities serving "where the need is great" in a foreign language congregation somewhere in western europe.

as a young brother, i'm seen as an example as i'm doing all a good witness should do.. i had doubts years ago but i decided just to ignore them and move to another congregation to preach more.

that worked for some years but i'm now at the exact same point.

flipper

The Walker - Very nice to have you here ! Many of us have experienced the same things you have in seeing injustice in the organization and lack of real love. One of the reasons I stopped attending in 2003. Keep doing research on the Internet to discover some of the things going on behind the scenes within the WT Society such as the hiding of criminal child abuse and other injustices committed by WT leaders. You won't find this information at your weekly service meetings for sure. They don't want you to know. Keep informing yourself and research. Take care we are here as a support system to you friend

40

Creepy things jw's have said to you

by purrpurr in

jw
friends

here's mine: i'm 14 years old, just baptised and a old boy married elder of about 60 odd comes up to me and says " ooooooooooh!

"purrpurr"!

your getting such a lovely figure on you!

flipper

Things JW's have said to me that are creepy ?

A JW former friend of mine said when I told him of the 16 out of court child abuse settlements in California by the WT Society in 2007 he stated, " You know Flipper the news media is ALWAYS talking negative about Jehovah's Witnesses and making stories up persecuting us. " I asked him, " Is the news media making up stories about Baptist church child abuse cases, Mormon or Catholic child abuse cases too ? " He was just quiet. I said, " Maybe there is actual truth to the news stories. Why do you have a persecution complex " ? I asked him. Silence.

My daughter back in 2008 told me, " Dad, I can't understand HOW you can be so happy since you don't attend meetings anymore since you stopped in 2003 ? " She continued, " I would just be devastated if I stopped attending meetings and be really sad ! " I told her , " I have a lot to be thankful for : good health, a caring and loving wife, grow an organic garden, nice pets, nice place to live , good relationships - why wouldn't I be happy " ? She was just quiet on the other end of the phone. Really strange.

Another JW elder friend I used to be close to back in 2009 told me this when I explained to him my doubts about the " overlapping generation " WT theory when I told him that in secular dictionaries the definition of the word " generation " denoted a period of about 30 years. His response ? He said, " Yeah but Flipper that's a WORLDLY dictionary's definition of " generation " - the Bible has a different definition. "

You just can't win with these people I swear. They won't reason beyond their front nose. So those are several experiences I had

74

Jehovah's Witnesses May Have Peaked in Membership at 8 Million (+/-)

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but i have read enough on jwn to state my opinion pretty strongly.. memorial attendance for 2015 was down.while they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new kingdom halls, and everybody is still in recovery from watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new kingdom halls.putting gb members on the videos at jw .

org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men.

instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.. the gb lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation.

flipper

What All Time Jeff said very succinctly. I agree, except that I don't believe the GB is going to change in order to appease the JW's - I feel they are definitely arrogant SOB's who are going to make people continue to tow the WT party line by through use of the shunning " program " and the GB will still be defiant against releasing ANY child abuse scandal information at all in order to avoid self incrimination. I think in time the WT leaders will go down with all guns flaring away defiantly still claiming to be God's alleged " faithful & discreet slave . " It's just that in my 44 years in the JW cult until 2003- I never saw any indication the GB apologizes about anything. They always shift the blame to the rank & file JW's. Anyway- My 2 cents I agree with most everything All Time Jeff states

20

Verify the Audit Checklist/Destruction of Files!

by Atlantis in

several people have asked if the audit checklist boe/destruction of files/ can be verified.

atlantis said that if the previous information was not enough evidence, then i should send you the boe letter where the watchtower admits to sending out the annual audit inspection checklist.. .. write these down:.

.please see: page 2, number 5. please see: last paragraph on page 3.. please see: page 4 annual audit of files.

flipper

I agree with Atlantis that the WT leaders are probably trying to destroy evidence - especially regarding child abuse crimes within the JW organization. I mean think about it - Why else would the WT Society rather pay out 13.5 million $$$$ court ordered penalty to the victim of child abuse Gilbert Lopez - than to obey a court order to hand over the 23,0000 pedophile database that the courts demanded or refuse to allow Gerrit Losch to testify in that same case ? Or refuse to even hand over written child abuse policies to the court ? Because there are higher up WT people who have been appointed in positions of oversight AFTER the WT Society already knew they had molested children. So yeah, it makes sense that some of these confidential files on child abuse have been destroyed. as Atlantis said- it doesn't matter WHERE it's happening- this concealment or destruction of facts incriminating the WT leaders has probably happened all over the world

35

Saddest thing about being DFd

by kairos in

jw
friends

i always enjoyed being kind.

when someone genuinely needed a hand or what not, it felt good to help family or friends.. i don't really miss them anymore.

i faded over two years ago, so they long ago shunned me.i think about them less and less and have even forgotten some names.i did enjoy some of the friendships and the association.

flipper

KAIROS- I totally empathize. I can think of only one or at the most two people who were JW's that I'd consider were " close " friends that I miss - however in talking with them after I stopped attending meetings I found the friendships were totally conditional in that they judged me as " unfit " association once I shared my doubts about the organization.

Bottom line is I've made some REALLY great friendships with not only folks on this board but other non-JW's who accept me and understand me for the free thinking person that I am - not the mentally constipated cult member I once was.

It reminds me of the lyrics in a Pink Floyd song off the " Division Bell " album which goes , " So I offer my hand to my enemy and I say ' can we wipe the slate clean ' but they tell me to please go fuck myself - you know you just can't win . "

Personally I decided not to waste any more time on people who won't accept me for who I am. I'm avoiding all psychological vampires now. Decided to hang with only true friends. I feel so much better with the positivity - avoiding the negativity. Hang in there bud let's talk soon