Six of Nine, there is a book or at least an article on exactly what you are talking about, it is called the Adonis Complex where bodybuilders percieve themselves as being scrawny even though they might be huge in exactly the same way that anorexics see themselves as fat no matter how skinny they are.
My thoughts on men who Body Build
by kls 127 Replies latest jw experiences
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Big Dog
Darn it 144, I figured if I beat Abaddon, Ronnie Coleman would be shaking in his spandex.
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Abaddon
144
http://www.personalmd.com/news/a1996081201.shtml
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/darkes/anabolic-steroids-and-aggression-01.htmSecondly, AAS ingestion and injection are not simply physical or chemical events, but also behavioral events, part of a sub-culture and a ritual.
Nice hobby, eh?http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/darkes/anabolic-steroids-and-aggression-02.htm
... AAS users reported more aggression than non-users. For example, current users reported higher levels of anger-arousal and hostile outlook (Lefavi, Reeve, & Newland, 1990). Mood disorder (Pope & Katz, 1994), self-reported aggression and aggressive traits (Galligani, Renck, & Hansen, 1996; Perry, Anderson, & Yates, 1990; Yates, Perry, & Murray, 1992) "abnormal" personality traits (Cooper, Noakes, Dunne, Lambert, & Rochford, 1996) and aggressive mood (Bond, Choi, & Pope, 1995) were increased in AAS users.
Anyway, to 'cut to the chase' of the above comprehensive articles, it turns out that in careful experiments in admitedly un-naturalistic settings, no aggression increase was found, but in other less methodical studies (such as those abstracted in the last quote above) where factors such as self-selection and self-reporting were used, with no controls et. al., there is always an increase in reported aggression.
Which could mean that the random sample of people given steroids gave a picture of the effects of steroid use on average members of the population, while surveys of users of steroids perhaps found that users of steroids were more likely to be more aggressive than average members of the population. Which kind of proves the point; whether steroid users are aggressive before they take steroids and thus chose to take them or become aggressive as a result of taking them, the evidence shows that users of steroids are more aggressive even if its predispostion that causes the aggression, not the steroids. A steroid using body-builder is more likely to be aggressive, and they probably comprise 10% + of the hobby, increasing in higher compettitve levels if the patterns of drug taking in sports is uniformly duplicated.
Thus, my contention that serious body-builders seem to be more aggressive seems to have good backing. There is not a proven causal link between steroid use and aggression, but compared to an average sample of the population the steroid users come out more aggressive, and steroid use amongst serious body builders is > 10% compared to < 0.1% of the general population.
Instead of the apology that is obviously warranted here, we get a "flip flop" in the form of qualification of his previous statements. It doesn't fly. I live in California, and there is no shortage of bodybuilders here. I know plenty of folks who fit Abaddon's above-quoted physical description and are great people, professionals with families who have normal egos and lives. It just so happens that bodybuilding is their chosen pastime. Too bad they don't have presiding overseer Abaddon's approval for their lifestyles. I guess they can expect to be destroyed at Armageddon.
Lots of stuff I never said... obscuration of what I did say, semantic trickiness ('clarification', not 'qualification'), but you're not going to drop this whatever I say, QED, YMAO.
The real reason behind Abaddon's hatred of bodybuilders can be gleaned from this candid shot of Abaddon competing in a bodybuilding event:
I suggest 'Microsoft Internet Explorer for
DummiesBodybuilders and their Apologists'; it's great in trying to have a dig at me (you're the one who personified this disucssion, remember 144) you make yourself look foolish. Class, real class...Six
I think when (the size of) your muscles cause you to walk funny, you should realize you've entered a special dimension of human freakishness. If you honestly digest that fact, and are ok with it, well, to each their own.
Yup, exactly. Most people with sixteen facial piercings embrace the term 'freak'. Many people with extensive tattoos do the same. If someone who has so enlarged their body through exercise that they cannot buy comfy jeans and are forever wearing trackies, et.al. (adult babygrows) wants to deny they are a freak, go ahead. It's not the freakishness that bothers me, it's the denial, deamazon, and in bad cases delakevictoria that bothers me. Hell, I'm a freak, big deal...
I just wonder if extreme bodybuilders really see themselves realistically, or if the same type of visual disconnect that happens with anorexia happens to them?
"Bigorexia" or muscle dismorphia is a known condition. Obviously not all body builders have this, but it's out there.
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Big Dog
Abaddon, I have seen many anti-bodybuilding/powerlifting (BB/PL) folks over the years and I have always wondered what made them tick. Care to give some insight as to why that particular pursuit seems to draw your ire? I have my own theories but I'd like to hear from you where this intense dislike for the pursuit comes from.
As far as denial of freakishness I have never seen that in the BB/PL community, rather they embrace it. It makes them feel good that they are not weak, and either scrawny or fat, they love it when clothes don't fit properly. I love the little digs as in "adult babygrows" to describe the clothing worn by those of the species that are large, which I think pretty much tells me why you dislike BB/PL so much but I'd still like to hear from you what bothers you so much about the whole pursuit.
Also, it appears to me you are now shifting the arguement from BB/PL being more aggressive to steroid users being more aggressive, which may or may not be true, the "evidence" you provide is not very persuasive to say the least.
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Abaddon
Big Dog, prior to this thread body-building had not crossed my mind ONCE in the past six months, probably a lot longer. Obviously if the subject is as unimportant to those you describe as "anti-bodybuilding/powerlifting" as it is to me then you poor benighted souls don't have a lot to worry about from the 'anti' lobby. However, I don't accept the label, as for s start, you have lumped in an entirely different sport. From seeing this on TV it seems that the practitioners also LOOK different to BB'ers, as they are trying to lift things, not look good according to a un-natural and distorted set of expectations.
It's like the difference between a sled-dog (where the physical expectations of the role carry with it a certain body shape) and a bulldog (where a supposedly 'useful' set of physical characteristics has been condensed into an unrealistic standard apprerance that can cause health problems).
I have my own theories...
Yes, and they probably are as reasonable as your previous 'sunken chested' and 'pipe-stem arm' comments... do you really think of non-body builders as the inadequates you describe them as? Seems we are both guilty of assumptions. Anyway, my body is there for all to see.
I'd like to hear from you where this intense dislike for the pursuit comes from.
Meeting nasty, aggresive body builders. You know, like I said. And I have an instense displike for aggresive assholes (and a surprising number of those of met have been BB'ers), the hobby itself just seems a bit pointless and self-obsessive.
As far as denial of freakishness I have never seen that in the BB/PL community, rather they embrace it. It makes them feel good that they are not weak,
Lord above, I'd love to see anyone not built like a gorilla walk up to one of the examples of body builders I know personally and call them a freak. In fact I wouldn't as senseless violence nauseates me...and either scrawny or fat,
What about a fit human body? Surely the fact you don't refer to normal body shapes when 'big-uping' BB'ing just reinforces the distorted self image BB'ers can have. Fit human bodies do not look like body builders. Body builders look like body builders. And Conan. And second edition Star Wars figures. And He-Man. It's as realistic a look as Barbie is.they love it when clothes don't fit properly.
Ah, the warm glow of achievement... gives them something to discuss with anorexics who are getting thinner, doesn't it? Satisfaction at getting closer to an unreachable goal! Bigger, but not big enough, as opposed to thinner, but not thin enough.I love the little digs as in "adult babygrows" to describe the clothing worn by those of the species that are large,
Nope, someone of completely normal size can so bloat their muscles they are forced into perpetual 'lesiure' wear.Also, it appears to me you are now shifting the arguement from BB/PL being more aggressive to steroid users being more aggressive, which may or may not be true, the "evidence" you provide is not very persuasive to say the least.
The evidence is as pursuasive as I have described it in abstract, and I draw attention AGAIN to the interesting fact (which you miss or ignore) that rather than steroids making average people aggresive, it seems that those who choose to use steroids are aggresive. As the percentage of BB'ers using steroids is several orders of magnitude higher than the normal population, this will mean, by definiton, that bodybuilders (who are more likely to use steroids than a average person) are therefore also more likely to self-report themselves as being aggressive. This is what they say about themselves. Now, this either means they reply to such surveys in way that supports their self-image or that those drawn to pushing their bodies to extremes through steroid use tend to have aggresive personalities. Both of these conclusions (please draw other ones the data supports) support my original statement. -
upside/down
Funny you mention this...
I "learned" the "truth" from two bodybuilding JW wannabe's...
I'm 5'-7"... and have handed out a couple of black eyes...to guys like your sons...
But sadly I've learned the laws of physics are just not in my favor... size almost always comes out on top.
Kinda like a semi and a VW getting in a head-on wreck...
u/d(of the VW class)
p.s.- Maybe that's why I can run so fast?
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kls
But sadly I've learned the laws of physics are just not in my favor... size almost always comes out on top.
Kinda like a semi and a VW getting in a head-on wreck...
u/d(of the VW class)
p.s.- Maybe that's why I can run so fast?
ROTFL,,,,,,,,,,,,,Poor U/D
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doogie
abaddon said:
Meeting nasty, aggresive body builders. You know, like I said. And I have an instense displike for aggresive assholes (and a surprising number of those of met have been BB'ers), the hobby itself just seems a bit pointless and self-obsessive.
thank god a surprising number of those assholes were body-builders and not, say...teachers, right? methinks you have a problem with agressive assholes (and rightly so) and not *necessarily* body builders.
ive been lifting since my mid-teens religiously, never taken steroids, never gotten in a fight (bought drinks for would-be instigators instead of hitting them), read continually and all in all am a pretty nice, passive guy. i do have aggression in the gym, but i leave it at the door. it's funny, because most of the time, it's the agression that i've accumulated outside of the gym which i purge within...not the other way around. i would not *define* myself as a body builder, however, a hobby of mine is body building. i'm sorry that you've encountered so many muscle-headed jerks. i strongly suggest you get a membership to a gym in your area. i think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the number of sane, rational, lovely gym rats (freaks though some may be) you will meet.
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hibiscusfire
Body Building yes sure but not to look hard like a rock. It's ugly. They will be too heavy.
HF
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doogie
Body Building yes sure but not to look hard like a rock. It's ugly. They will be too heavy.
i'm with ya hib. (to an extent...more than usual, at least )
the thing is, usually (of course, there are exceptions) your frame can only carry so much muscle and then it stops building. of course, steroids or HGH can bypass this, but your body basically maintains a symmetry of sorts (i.e. some BBs neglect working the lower body and as a result any upper body growth is stunted). my girlfriend weight trains with me and her friends say that they would lift with her but they don't want to get big. i tell them: "you won't." your frame only carries what your frame can carry.
like i said, i've been lifting continuously for years and you wouldn't call me a meat head (i'm a little guy, 5'6", 145lbs. i bench 225 and curl almost my body weight but i don't think you'd call me anything other than *fit*). i guess my point is that body building does not necessarily result in a massive hard body. BB can also just be an excellent way to maintain your weight and live a healthy, active lifestyle. (jeez...i sound like a commercial)
(edited for clarity)