So how do you explain this....

by loosie 113 Replies latest jw experiences

rem

Sounds like quality science programming. :)

rem
freedom96

I would like to respond to Simons questions:
Who first told you there was a ghost?
No one told me that there was a ghost in the house. I suppose that word is used too often, but for lack of any other words to describe it, as I will continue to use it. Also, when people describe "ghosts" it is extremely similar to what I saw, so again, I will use that word to describe what I saw.
Now, my mom and sister heard it, as well as saw, and all 3 of us talked about it to others before talking with each other. The fact is that it was in our home, and we all saw it. All our stories matched perfectly.
DId you all see it independently and then report it or did you hear about a ghost and then all thought you saw it?
We all saw it independently, and discussed it at a much later time. My mother actually asked me years after I moved out of the house, did I find anything odd about it. My exact response was "What, other than the shadow?" I never really thought much about the fact that we never discussed this happening in our home. After all, we were witnesses, this should't be happening. However, my story exactly matched my sisters, and we had never discussed with each other. We described what he looked like, and what we saw and heard.
Among the things that we experienced were the following. I saw it on dozens of occasions. It was somewhat see through, and would travel through doors and walls. I remember specifically locking and double checking the doors when I would take a bath. I remember being in the tub and it would pass through one door and through the next. We had a large enclosed back porch, that no one, including my parents cared to be in, though no one talked about why. Just spooky I guess.
The entire family would be downstairs, and we would hear the distinct footsteps upstairs going across the floor. You all have heard it before, maybe a home, or an apartment, when you hear someone walking upstairs. It is distinct noise, not the house creaking.
We would hear it walking up the front stairs to our house. I can't tell you how many times we would run to the door expecting the mail man, or a friend, to find out no one was there.
My mother woke up in the middle of the night with this "ghost" right beside her, staring for at least half a minute, until my mom screamed and it ran off.
I would see it upstairs in my room. In between my room and my sisters was another room, which we kept most of our toys and games. This thing would float between all 3 rooms.
On moving day, my moms last day, she takes one last look around the house, with her dog, and she is standing in the living room. Next room over was her bedroom, and suddenly wailing comes from her room. Very clear, and the dog heard it too. She grabbed her dog, and never returned.
Some of you want to say that I didn't see what I saw? Then you are foolish and ignorent, as you did not experience what I did. Just because you don't believe it, doesn't make it so.
And just because you say you think you saw a ghost doesn't make the ghost real.
If anyone doesn't believe my story, that is up to them. I have nothing to try to prove, and nothing to gain by lying. In a place in all of our lives where we were sure we believed a certain way, and then to find it was all wrong, it may be difficult to believe much of anything. I don't have all the answers, and don't claim too. But I know what I experienced, and that, I know is for real.
Without question, I swear to God or whomever you believe or don't believe in, that is was true.
I believe that you believe that you saw a ghost. I don't beliegve there was a ghost though.
Well, again, we can pick apart what we want to call it. A ghost, a shadow, a misty figure. Whatever. But it was not from our world as we know it.
For those who don't believe in these type of situations, what say you?? You think I am insane, or we all saw things in our head?
In case you are curious, our home was built in the 1880's, and we were only the 3rd family ever to live in that home.
You have been put in a 'creepy' situation. Probably told about a ghost or pieced together the possibility (old house, only people etc.) and no doubt watched plenty of Scooby Doo episodes while growing up.
I have guessed who this guy was due to the fact, that of course I am curious, and I am looking for answers. I don't have any. Other than we experienced what we did.
I'll only believe in ghosts if I see one and I doubt very much that I will because I will not assume it's a ghost and be looking for the rational explanation.
I can certainly appreciate your viewpoint. If I didn't experience it myself, I don't know if I would believe either. But sometimes the rational explanation is just that, it is what it is. We don't have to prove that it is not a ghost simply because we choose not to believe in them. Maybe the rational explanation is that it is in fact a ghost.
freedom96

In the home I grew up in, we had a ghost. I won't call him a demon, as I have no reason to do so. But it was a ghost, and looked like a man.
Was the ghost corporeal? Translucent? Did it have a distinct form? Did it suddenly appear and disappear or physically walk out of the room? Did it talk? Did it interact with objects? Did objects move without the ghost being visible? The ghost was translucent, kind of like a fog type appearance. The shape of the ghost was like someone who lived at the turn of the century. A top hat, like you have seen pictures of Abe Lincoln wearing, and he had a trench coat on. I described exactly what we saw on the previous post responding to Simon. It did not talk, though my mother heard it wailing in the other room the day she moved out. I never saw it interact with objects, though I did hear it walking around when I could not see it. No objects ever moved by themselves.
Now, my mom and sister heard it, as well as saw, and all 3 of us talked about it to others before talking with each other. The fact is that it was in our home, and we all saw it. All our stories matched perfectly.
How old were you at the time? How impressionable were you? How much time has elapsed since these events? I moved into the house when I was 9, and moved out when I was 18. How impressionable was I? Don't know, though I was level headed. I am in my late 30's now, and we never discussed them as a family, both together and seperate, until I was in my mid 20's.
Some of you want to say that I didn't see what I saw? Then you are foolish and ignorent, as you did not experience what I did. Just because you don't believe it, doesn't make it so.

There is no point in saying that you did not see what you say you saw, but the issue I have with these things is proof. And the motivation of these otherworldly incantations. I have all the proof I need, as I was there. I know what I saw, with 100 % certainty. Whether that works as proof for those that don't believe, maybe it isn't enough. But those that are determined not to believe, there is probably not much I could say to change your mind anyways. And maybe if you did see it, maybe you would convince yourself that it was something else, just to justify it in your mind. Don't know what to tell you. Other than I have no reason to lie. The motivation or reason that this ghost was in my home? No idea. Don't claim to have the answers.
For those who don't believe in these type of situations, what say you?? You think I am insane, or we all saw things in our head?
Since I have no idea who you are, it is hypothetically possible that you could in fact be insane, or that you saw it in your head but that is not necessarily the case. It is also remotely possible that you are simply lying, though that seems unlikely. You may have been young and impressionable and duped by ghost stories told by your family and imagined the rest. Or there may have been a much more complicated explanation in which some form did in fact appear. But no proof has been furnished that it was a ghost. I suppose it is possible that I am insane, though I am sure that most who know me would say otherwise. As far as seeing it in my head, that would prove to be difficult as my family also saw it. Lying, already covered that. Ghost stories told by the family? Never existed. We never talked about it even back then when we all lived there. Other than seeing it first hand many times over, I don't know what proof you may still want. Not like I can go back there and ask him if he could come over and hang out, and I could show him off to my friends.
In case you are curious, our home was built in the 1880's, and we were only the 3rd family ever to live in that home. The man/ ghost my family saw and heard was dressed for someone at the turn of the century. I think maybe it was the guy who first lived there. Why was he there? Don't know. But I know he was real. Saw him countless times. Never attacked us, or caused us harm. Though I would never stay in a house like that now.
It is definitely an interesting account that evokes a lot of questions. For how long did your family stay in the house with this entity? It seems from what you have said that it never communicated with any memeber of your family. Yes, certainly, there are a lot of questions that will continue to be left unanswered. I personally lived there from ages 9-18. My sister lived there an additional 4 years after that, and my parents moved out 6 or 7 years later. As far as communicating with our family, really no. Except for the situation I talked about before where my mom saw it standing looking over her bed for a half minute or so before she yelled and it ran off, and the day she moved out, when she heard it wailing in the next room over.
heathen

freedom96 --- I can say I do believe you had encounters with spirits . Those sound like very similar experiences to my own and other family members . Whether Rem and others wish to try and use denial and exsplain away rather then try to understand is of no importance to me . Fine you don't believe , I'm not trying to make a believer out of anybody just having an honest discussion about some very strange things . I'm not interested in professional help as these things are easily exsplainable in my book . Actually it's been a pretty long time since actually seeing one around 10yrs or so and I still live in the same house that I saw it .
I do get a kick out of the ghost hunters show and they have actually come up with some evidence with EVP and objects moving . Now I'm not stupid and believe they could also be doing things as to keep the show interesting and on the air . I remember the episode in the old prison and they actually filmed some caped entity running . That was one of the few times they all agreed that it was a ghost .
freedom96

heathen-
It just blows my mind how many people insist that there is no such thing as "ghosts" or the supernatural, or whatever they want to call it. Just because they never experienced what others may have does not mean it does not exist. Yes, I may have difficulty making them believe, but just because they don't doesn't make me a lier.
Everyone is free to believe as they wish, but they shouldn't tell me that I am wrong simply because they choose not to believe.
It seems to me that it would be much more logical to say, hey I never have seen it, don't know what to believe, than to accuse me or others of lying, or distorting the truth.
If anyone accuses me of lying, that, I have a problem with. Or that I didn't see or experience what I did. As far as I am concerned, they can live in their world of denial.
rem

I like how ghosts always seem to be in period dress. Is clothing part of the soul? :)

I think believers are some of the most closed minded people in the world. The funny thing is that they try to claim that skeptics are closed minded. Skeptics are the ones who have gone through the trouble of becoming educated on the topic and are not just going on their "gut instinct". Many skeptics, such as myself, used to believe in ghosts and have had alleged paranormal experiences in the past, so we really do know both sides of the story. Skeptics have usually seen much information on both sides of the topic.

So who really is closed minded?

rem
rem

Anothery annoying thing about believers: They *always* insist that skeptics are calling them liars. I think this may have something to do with the reading comprehension skills of the believer, or they are just so blinded by their belief that they really can't process information that goes counter to their intuition.

Try actually reading and understanding what we are saying... then get off your lazy ass and do some real research. Then you will find that we are not calling you liars.

Yeah, that's right... I'm not calling believers liars, I'm calling them out as lazy-ass non-researchers.

rem
freedom96

Rem,
What research do you suggest that I do? I saw the thing in my home, whatever you want to call it. It was not a live person as we know it.
When I talk about what he looked like, I describe it perfectly. What if, for some chance, this was the guy who built the house in the first place? Who knows? I don't have all the answers, and I don't claim to.
However, I know without a doubt what I saw and experienced for many years. When someone suggests that I didn't, yes I have a problem with that, because how the hell do they know?
Now, if you are all mighty and full of wisdom and would like to enlighten me, I would be happy to read your post.
You say do some research.....ok what do you suggest? Am I supposed to read something that tells me that what my family and I experienced didn't really happen?
As far as calling people such as myself lazy asses, I would encourage you to know to whom you are speaking to first. You know very little about me, and as those who do, would assure you that I am not lazy, nor stupid. You don't accomplish what I have by sitting on the couch, my friend.
rem

>> However, I know without a doubt what I saw and experienced for many years. When someone suggests that I didn't, yes I have a problem with that, because how the hell do they know?

That is the crux of it right there. You have not learned to doubt, therefore you will never increase your knowledge. When you learn more about human psychology and how the brain works, you will start to doubt.

>> You say do some research.....ok what do you suggest? Am I supposed to read something that tells me that what my family and I experienced didn't really happen?

There is so much information out there, but for the novice, I would recommend a couple of good books:

Demon Haunted World, by Carl Sagan
Why People Believe Weird Things, by Michael Shermer

From there you will find references to many more authors and research papers and you can narrow down your interests. Another great read was Pseudoscience and the Paranormal, by Hines. This one has a lot of references.

I'm sorry, but just going by your instinct and trusting yourself is the lazy approach. It's basically the same thing as JW's who don't want to do the research on how the Borg is corrupt. They are comfortable in their worldview.

That's not to say you are lazy in all other areas... just in this particular area, or perhaps research in general.

rem
Terry

Not many people are aware of the fact that at one time people actually believed there were fairies. During that time period photographs were produced to prove they existed. Many sightings took place in various places. Then, it was revealed that two little girls created a hoax with their photos and the whole phenomenon vanished.
In the early 1950's there was belief in Past Lives when a book "THE SEARCH FOR BRIDEY MURPHEY" became an overnight sensation. Suddenly thousands of people remembered past lives. Years later it was proven that the book was a hoax. But, the phenomenon tapered off and then re-emerged.]
What is my point?
I think it is obvious.
I use to experience demonic activity until I stopped believing in the nonsense.
The mind is a delicate instrument of perception on the one hand and an instrument of imagination and hallucination on the other.
Think about it.
T.

So how do you explain this....

Share this