So how do you explain this....

by loosie 113 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  daystar

  "Now, my suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we
  suppose, but queerer than we can suppose... I suspect that there are
  more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of, in any philosophy"
  - J.B.S. Haldane

  But just as at one time mankind believed the most ridiculous things, attributing all sorts of supernatural characteristics to things we now understand as natural physical events, it is highly likely that we hold just as ridiculous beliefs about relatively scientifically unexplored phenomena today, and probably quite a few assumedly familiar phenomena.
• 

  LittleToe

  It's a scientific fact that it breaks the mind of skeptics who experience such things, leading to them being medicated up to the eyeballs by Psychiatrists. This proves conclusively that believers have the superior minds, as they have the flexibility in their worldview/framework, to tolerate such occurances.

  Those skeptics who deride others for their views are the small (but very vocal) minority who are fortunate enough not to experience such things. Therefore it's likely (to around a 100% certainty) that the skeptics who would broach this subject would be amongst the detractors, as they haven't been closeted away in Mental Health Sanitoriums and their virginous meme remains intact (contrary to public opinion, exposure to a succumbus while sleeping does not break this).

  It also shows that evolution had clear reasons for evolving a "God-bit" section of the human brain, and that in the poor unfortunate throwbacks who didn't retain use of it are likely to be weeded out by natural selection. It's only the State-run Mental Institutions, as well as a good modern education program that sees a place for minority groups, that allow them to continue a somewhat normal level of existance. In previous generations they would have become the family pet, and been left drooling in the corner rocking-chair, eating their own feet.

  For some inexplicable reason there are high concentrations of them in Ireland, Canada, and the West coast of the USA, and other areas with low fluoride levels in the local water table. Statisticians are claiming that there's likely a 47% higher propensity in these regions than most others, though (as I've said before), you can make statistics say anything. Those stats may seem impressive when you apply the rules of parsimony, but otherwise they fall before the "weak evidence" of subjective anecdotal experience.

  For references, please follow the following links:

  http://fluoridenews.blogspot.com/2005_06_01_fluoridenews_archive.html

  http://www.csicop.org/si/2004-03/belief.html

  http://www.johnhorgan.org/work17.htm

  http://www.memeart.com/Devotion38.html
• 

  integ

  Little Toe put it very well. To not believe in the existence of supernatural "entities" or however you want to refer to them, is to NOT have experienced an encounter with these very powerful astral "beings". The mind may play tricks on some, but ask; "who or what is causing the mind to play these tricks?" I KNOW that we are all spiritual beings having a human experience, and for me, my spiritual existence is more REAL than this "reality" we call life. It is entirely subjective, admittedly. I can't "tell" you what it's like. Everyone may experience Realization once the layers obstructing the view are removed or released. It is natural for skeptics who think they are just being real to doubt the existence of spiritual entities, demons, etc. But it reminds of a great line from the "Usual Suspects" where Verble says; "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled is to make people believe he doesn't exist" or something to that effect.

  I think it is common, at least from my experience, to see former witnesses NOT believe in supernatural anything. When Jehovah is dead to them, than it seems the reality of God is also (to some, not all). For those skeptics who don't beleive in anything whatsoever existing outside of this human experience, I would invite you to explore the possibility completely before arriving at the conclusion that nothing outside ones self and this so called 'reality' exist or not.

  Thanks,

  Integ.
• 

  zen nudist

  it is a FACT that people experience what SEEM like supernatural entities.... it is FACT that these experiences SEEM just as real as any others, however it is not a FACT that such beings and expeirences are more than mental inventions or have any basis in any actual reality which may exist....

  experiences ARE facts, but beliefs about them are NOT. one need not be a skeptic to realize that everything known to anyone is the product of their own mind interpreting the data of reality filtered through their sensory apperatice.... there is not a single person on earth who can know reality directly as there is always a layer of interpretation...

  the world you know is a dream. it may be accurate to reality, it may not be... but it is the product of your own minds attempt to decode data which you dont really have way to know where it came from.

  you see the rushing waters of experience, never the streambed of reality beneath it.... and even when you catch glimpses of that stream bed through the clear waters, you are never absolutely sure of what you are seeing.

  it is the FALSE certainty that is so easily adopted by so many which makes them fall prey to JWs and others who force their IF this THEN that black and white binary mentality upon the unwary.
• 

  Jeffro

  LittleToe wrote:

  It's a scientific fact that it breaks the mind of skeptics who experience such things

  Since there is no reliable scientific evidence of any supernatural occurence, it cannot therefore be a 'scientific fact' that such events cause a particular result in skeptics.

  (contrary to public opinion, exposure to a succumbus while sleeping does not break this)

  Are there any 'popular opinions' regarding 'succumbuses'? (Do you mean the mythical 'succubus'??)
  integ wrote:

  To not believe in the existence of supernatural "entities" or however you want to refer to them, is to NOT have experienced an encounter with these very powerful astral "beings".

  Some people 'know' they've had such visitations, just like others 'know' they've been abducted by aliens or they 'know' they were Cleopatra in a past life or they 'know' that Jesus returned in 1914. There is simply no evidence to support such claims.

  The mind may play tricks on some, but ask; "who or what is causing the mind to play these tricks?"

  Neurology is complicated, and though it may be glamorous to simplify the causes of such 'mind tricks' by suggesting it's a powerful supernatural force, to do so is a fantasy. Imbalances in the chemistry of the brain can cause any number of results, some of which cause altered perceptions leading to fictional or distorted experiences. Such tricks of the mind do not require intervention of a supernatural "who or what", any more than a powerful force is behind the dopamine levels of a schizophrenic or the insulin levels of a diabetic.
• 

  LittleToe

  Jeffro:Did you read the empirical evidence I cited in the links, or did you just reply without thinking? One of the articles cites research from the prestigous Harvard University.

  You think you're a skeptic, don't you?

  ---

  Integ:
• 

  Jeffro

  Did you read the empirical evidence I cited in the links, or did you just reply without thinking? One of the articles cites research from the prestigous Harvard University.

  The article on the effects of fluoride cites Harvard University. My comments have little bearing on whether fluoride has negative or positive effects on health.
  The study on factors of paranormal belief makes reference to a graduate of Harvard which does not suggest agreement from Harvard University per se, and the article does not prove that paranormal activity is real, only that some believe in it.
  The other two articles did not appear to mention Harvard. Beliefs within Buddhism vary greatly and do not necessitate paranormal belief.
  The article on prayer is more of a 'heartwarmer' than anything else. Though there are some emotional benefits of prayer for believers, such benefit is primarily derived from the person helping to sort out there concerns by expressing them, and the comfort of feeling that someone else cares about them. (Such comfort often turns to grief if/when the person experiences a disaster that they feel their God should not have allowed.) Though people in some areas do rely heavily on therapy where other (cheaper) techniques would be of benefit, prayer should not be used as a coverall for all mental conditions, some of which require professional treatment.
• 

  heathen

  I've heard many "credited " psychics claim that strange things happen on account of dead people . The bibe says that evil spirits are what really cause people to exsperience all sorts of strange phenomena . I have seen what I consider to be spirits and don't think I was hallucinating .I can speak from first hand knowledge that most people are not nuts or chemically imballanced because they witness strange things . I most definately do believe in evil spirits .
• 

  Jeffro

  I've heard many "credited " psychics claim that strange things happen on account of dead people . The bibe says that evil spirits are what really cause people to exsperience all sorts of strange phenomena . I have seen what I consider to be spirits and don't think I was hallucinating .I can speak from first hand knowledge that most people are not nuts or chemically imballanced because they witness strange things . I most definately do believe in evil spirits .

  When some are confronted with the idea that a chemical imbalance may be involved in seeing supposed supernatural phenomena the knee-jerk reaction is "I'm not crazy". In saying that a chemical imbalance may be involved, it is not necessarily suggested that a person has a serious permanent mental illness; simply that there may have been an imbalance in the person's physiology during the time that the supernatural event was thought to have occurred, though such experiences may have also been part of a particularly realistic dream.
  Maybe you should tell the evil spirits that helped with your typing that a space is not required before a full stop ('period' for our American readers).
• 

  freedom96

  It suprises me that some people talk with such authority, about things that perhaps they don't know.

  Suggesting an illness, delusions, etc., that these "ghosts" don't exist. For some maybe. For others, very real.

  Here is a fact for some to consider.

  In the home I grew up in, we had a ghost. I won't call him a demon, as I have no reason to do so. But it was a ghost, and looked like a man.

  Now, my mom and sister heard it, as well as saw, and all 3 of us talked about it to others before talking with each other. The fact is that it was in our home, and we all saw it. All our stories matched perfectly.

  Some of you want to say that I didn't see what I saw? Then you are foolish and ignorent, as you did not experience what I did. Just because you don't believe it, doesn't make it so.

  Without question, I swear to God or whomever you believe or don't believe in, that is was true.

  For those who don't believe in these type of situations, what say you?? You think I am insane, or we all saw things in our head?

  Yeah, ok. Whatever.

  In case you are curious, our home was built in the 1880's, and we were only the 3rd family ever to live in that home. The man/ ghost my family saw and heard was dressed for someone at the turn of the century. I think maybe it was the guy who first lived there. Why was he there? Don't know. But I know he was real. Saw him countless times. Never attacked us, or caused us harm. Though I would never stay in a house like that now.