by rebel8 151 Replies latest jw friends
google,
My son was around 7 the last time I went to a meeting with any intent on listening.......yes I am untheocratic! Sorry, If I had wanted to be theocratic, I'd still be part of the Cult.
My mom thinks I have something in my house that is demonized......maybe it's the little American flag I keep hanging in my kitchen window.....or the one on my car?
Don't know, don't care.........I'm free!
50 stars on a blue feild.... 13 stripes for the 13 original Colonies.
I wanna know why everytime some one here ( an American) expresses love of country he gets the "tradin' on cult for another " tag. Do you Europeans hate your countries? Or is it just the elitism about such things that typically endears ya'all to us?
~Hill
Doesn't it feel goooood?
u/d (of the feels good instead of guilty now class)
There is an American chauvenism about our activities that infuriates much of the world. In general, European nations are more down to earth about the role their nation has, and has had historically, in world events.
Chauvenism is a more appropriate accusation than cultism, since there isn't the same authority structure, but is a cultural thing. The two are closely related.
(chauvenism in general being a bias towards a group of which you are a part, best demonstrated in "my country right or wrong.")
Of course... I (and most Americans) have a "bias", but "my country right or wrong"...NO WAY IN HELL.
Don't under estimate the intelligence level of any "people"... the "average joe" the world over is a pretty nice...decent kinda guy.
The media of every nation makes it's citizens out to be something they seldom really are.
European nations are more down to earth about the role their nation has, and has had historically, in world events
That's only since they ceased being the dominant players in Empire building. Europe was cocky as hell and kicked plenty of ass and raped the planet the world over in it's hey day. The Romans were Europeans too... as were the Dutch, the French, the Portuguese, the Spanish, the Italians, the Germans and....oh yeah that little island with Hadrians Wall...Brittania.
Spook...just an observation...
Europe is also trying to re-assert itself as THE major economic power through the EU... so they WANT what the US has got... just keep watching... no one is as noble as they like to be portrayed... greedy peoples and governments know no boundaries.
u/d (of the just makin a small point class)
U/D
You had some good observations. If the US doesn't lose the chauvenism before it too is humbled, we'll be in for whole lot of trouble.
As for the EU, yes. The nations are still Imperialistic and many want a piece of the pie. The idea of being THE big dog...I don't know, I see many of them as being beyond that. If you really are interested in engaging that discussion, start a thread and I'll join. That's a very complicated issue, however, so I'll satisfy myself by simply supplying the rejoinder that it's not so simple as that. I do see an increased understanding in Europe, due largely from the extreme population crunch and close quarters, that the world must have a high level of cooperation with no rogue states or highly imbalanced international powers if anyone is to endure. Also there is an increased focus on social issues in EU democracy, U.S. and South Africa being the only modernized lands where a form of social health care is not in place, for example.
You had a few sweeping comments that I'll leave unadressed, and I also fail to see how I underestimated the "average joe" in my comments.
Your closing remarks, I couldn't agree more. That's why I'm a revolutionary.
As a close, I'd put forward that the "support our troops" campaign is yet another aspect of the chauvenism issue. It obscures dealing with the material basis of the conflict, and extrapolates the argument away from resolution. It's no better than saying "support our terrorists," since one could value them as sacrificing for their beliefs even if you didn't agree. The actions and the agents can not be separated.
Hill,
Do you Europeans hate your countries?
No, Europeans are as nationalistic, perhaps in certain countries more so that many Americans, but they tend to have a healthy disrespect of their politicians and seldom believe what comes out of a politicians mouth for more than two milliseconds.
HS
The actions and the agents can not be separated
I totally agree, that is why I proudly (oops, now I'm gonna get it for using the "p" word) display the "support our trroops" ribbon on my truck. I support both. Granted, I don't agree with all of the tactical decisions made in the "war on terror" so far, but the basic concept of "fight them on their turf" I agree with.
Terrorism has got to go. It's as simple as that. I don't think anyone would disagree with that, we all just seem to disagree about how to best get there. But terrorists, and states that support terrorism, need to be eliminated.
Oh, and by the way, I'm proud to be an American. No, I didn't actively choose to be born here, but now that I am free from the BORG I am becoming more active in my local community and in regional and national issues. I am proud to be able to get involved, and that I have the OPPORTUNITY to get involved.
What makes America such a great place (and by this I'm NOT saying America is better than every other country, so please don't go there) is NOT what she WAS, or currently IS, but what she aspires TO BE. Always better, more free, more successful, more open, more active in making the world a better place for everybody. Are we perfect at it? No. Do some of our politicians, just like politicians everywhere else, get sidetracked from focusing on "the greater good" from time to time and make bad decisions? Yes. But its the effort, from most of the politicians down to the "average joe" in the small town, to make a better life for themselves, their families, and their neighbors.
Brandon
Maybe the Dubs beat it too deeply into me...
I find politics...absolutely repulsive...a necessary evil to be sure...but as they say...
Power corrupts...absolute power corrupts absolutely. Or something like that..
I have hard-core "liberal" friends...and my father is a die hard Marine....ex-Republican...type...
They both seem more unbalanced than I was as a Dub...
Politics is a nasty business.... I chose to be a stay at home Dad....a much more noble and rewarding profession.
u/d (of the "Dad" class)
O.K. I'm scrolling through this thread, and I come across Dannybloem dissing my comment about being proud to salute the flag. Like I said, I don't always agree with all decisions made by the country. Who does? However, I am now a proud American who supports his country. I think that's enough said. It pisses me off when I make a comment on a topic and somebody has to act like a jerk about it.
I spent 25 years in a mind control cult like most of you on here. A lot of my viewpoints have changed on matters pertaining to this country. I am proud to put my trust in a country who does what it can to protect it's people. I always felt a sense of patriotism, and was always told how bad that was. Now that I think for myself, and make a simple comment somone has to be a prick about it. I suppose this is the land of the free, and some people use their freedom of speech to be stupid. And that's all I have to say about that.
