The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom 303 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • cofty
    cofty

    The following is just a sample of the sick, hate-filled rants in the quran regarding the fate of those who reject the child-raping prophet.

    It is undeniably the work of a very sick mind.


    "Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses – We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, God is ever Exalted in Might and Wise." (Quran 4:56)

    "Those who deny the Book (the Quran) and that with which We sent Our messengers – they are going to know, when the shackles are around their necks and the chains; they will be dragged in boiling water; then in the Fire they will be filled (with flame)." (Quran 40:70-72)

    "And fear the Fire which is prepared for the disbelievers." (Quran 3:131)

    "Know they not that whoever opposes God and His Messenger (Muhammad), certainly for him will be the Fire of Hell to abide therein? That is the extreme disgrace." (Quran 9:63)

    "They will long to leave the Fire, but never will they leave there from; and theirs will be a lasting torment." (Quran 5:37)

    "…And they will never leave of the Fire." (Quran 2:167)

    "Surely, those who disbelieve and did wrong; God will not forgive them, nor will He guide them to any way except the way of Hell, to dwell therein forever." (Quran 4:168-169)

    "Surely, God has cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a flaming Fire wherein they will abide for ever." (Quran 33:64)

    "And whosoever disobeys God and His Messenger, then surely, for him is the fire of Hell, he shall dwell therein forever." (Quran 72:23)

    "O you who believe, save yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is men and stones over which are (appointed) angels, stern and severe, who flinch not (from executing) the commands they receive from God, but do (precisely what) they are commanded." (Quran 66:6)

    "…But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water." (Quran 22:19)

    "And the companions of the left – what are the companions of the left? (They will be) in scorching fire and scalding water and a shade of black smoke, neither cool nor beneficial." (Quran 56:41-44)

    "No food will there be for them except from a bitter, thorny plant which neither nourishes nor avails against hunger." (Quran 88:6-7)

    "Indeed, the tree of zaqqum is food for the sinful, like murky oil, it boils within bellies, like the boiling of scalding water." (Quran 44:43-46)

    "Is that (Paradise) better as hospitality or the tree ofzaqqum? Indeed, We have made it a torment for the wrongdoers. Indeed, it is a tree issuing from the bottom of the Hellfire, its emerging fruit as if it was heads of the devils. And, indeed, they will eat from it and fill with it their bellies. Then, indeed, they will have after it a mixture of scalding water. Then, indeed, their return will be to the Hellfire." (Quran 37:62-68)

    "Then indeed you, O those astray (who are) deniers, will be eating from trees of zaqqum and filling with it your bellies, and drinking on top of it from scalding water, and will drink as the drinking of thirsty camels. That is their hospitality on the Day of Recompense." (Quran 56:51-56)

    "…They will be given to drink boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)." (Quran 47:15)

    "Surely, with us are fetters (to bind them) and a ranging Fire (to burn them), and a food that chokes and a penalty grievous." (Quran 73:12-13)

    "So no friend has he here this Day, nor has he any food except filth from the washing of wounds which none do eat but those in sin." (Quran 69:35-37)

    "This – so let them taste it – is scalding water and (foul) purulence. And other (punishments) of its type (in various) kinds." (Quran 38:57-58)

    "…And if they call for relief, they will be relieved with water like murky oil, which scalds (their) faces. Wretched is the drink, and evil is the resting place." (Quran 18:29)

    "Before him is Hell, and he will be given a drink of purulent water. He will gulp it but will hardly (be able to) swallow it. And death will come to him from everywhere, but he is not to die. And before him is a massive punishment." (Quran 14:16-17)

    "The person who will receive the least punishment among the people of Hell on the Day Resurrection will be a man, a smoldering ember will be placed under the arch of his foot. His brains will boil because of it."

    "Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses – We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, God is ever Exalted in Might and Wise." (Quran 4:56)

    "…poured upon their heads will be scalding water by which is melted that within their bellies and (their) skins." (Quran 22:19-20)

    "Super-heated water will be poured onto their heads and will dissolve through it until it cuts up their innards, expelling them; until it comes out of their feet, and everything is melted. Then they will be restored as they were."

    "and We will gather them on the Day of Resurrection (fallen) on their faces – blind, dumb and deaf. Their refuge is Hell; every time it subsides We increase them in blazing fire." (Quran 17:97)

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    I prefer to take his word for how it came about and he said an angel told him to recite. Eventually he said he stopped meeting the angel in the cave and he said that the words of koran just came to him.

    The reason I asked if JD thought that mohammad was capable of interpretation of the words of the koran is because that is a component of the hadiths. The context of the verse being "recited" includes Mohammad's interpretation.

    Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).


    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

  • Jonathan Drake
    Jonathan Drake

    honestly this thread has exhausted me. As I've already said, let's leave it alone. The Quran also says God may show mercy to those who do good regardless of their belief... But you ignore that completely.

    I just dont don't have the will to keep this thread going. Believe what you want, read how you want, and interpret what you will. Let's leave the judgement of right and wrong to christ if he shows up, and time if he doesn't. I'm okay with that.

  • myelaine
    myelaine
    [One of Allah’s 99 Names is al-Waddud, “the Loving.” Allah is called al-Waddud twice in the Qur’an. In 11:90, the prophet Shu’aib tells the people of Midian, “Ask pardon, then, from your Lord, then turn to Him; verily, my Lord is merciful, loving!” Likewise, in 85:12-16 we read:

    Lo! the punishment of thy Lord is stern. Lo! He it is Who produceth, then reproduceth, and He is the Forgiving, the Loving, Lord of the Throne of Glory, Doer of what He will.
    Nevertheless, other passages in the Qur’an qualify Allah’s love significantly. While Allah is said to love those who do good deeds (2:195), those who are pure (2:222), those who are righteous (9:7), and those who fight in his cause (61:4), the Qur’an is equally clear that Allah has no love for transgressors (2:190), ungrateful sinners (2:276), the unjust (3:57), or the proud (4:36). Even more significantly, the Qur’an states that Allah does not love non-Muslims:

    Qur’an 3:31-32—Say [O Muhammad]: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Say: Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers.

    Qur’an 30:43-45—Then turn thy face straight to the right religion before there come from Allah the day which cannot be averted; on that day they shall become separated. Whoever disbelieves, he shall be responsible for his disbelief, and whoever does good, they prepare (good) for their own souls, that He may reward those who believe and do good out of His grace; surely He does not love the unbelievers.
    Notice that 3:31-32 makes Allah’s love contingent on whether a person believes in Muhammad. This is similar to what we find in 19:46, which declares: “Lo! those who believe and do good works, the Beneficent will appoint for them love.”

    Hence, although Allah is called “the Loving,” the Qur’an only means by this that Allah will love people once they believe in him and obey his prophet. The god of Islam has no love for sinners and unbelievers.

    Interestingly, the “Love me first and I’ll love you back” kind of love exhibited by Allah in the Qur’an is condemned by Jesus in Matthew 5:43-48]
  • Simon
    Simon
    The Quran also says God may show mercy to those who do good regardless of their belief... But you ignore that completely.

    Because it's meaningless drivel for god's sake. It means NOTHING.

    Define "god", define "show mercy", define "do good", define "belief".

    It's utterly meaningless twaddle to anyone but a believer who wants to make it into whatever they imagine it.

    Lot's of "kill / murder" commandments and the nice part will be some vague unspecified good done by some imaginary creature.

    THAT is why we ignore it.

  • cofty
    cofty
    The Quran also says God may show mercy to those who do good regardless of their belief

    So is the quran lying when it rants about the torments of hell a thousand times? Is it all an idle threat?

    Is the god of Islam a psychopath or a liar?

    "Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses – We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, God is ever Exalted in Might and Wise." (Quran 4:56)

    "Those who deny the Book (the Quran) and that with which We sent Our messengers – they are going to know, when the shackles are around their necks and the chains; they will be dragged in boiling water; then in the Fire they will be filled (with flame)." (Quran 40:70-72)

    It is no mystery where ISIS get their ideas from.

  • cofty
    cofty
    honestly this thread has exhausted me.

    Defending the indefensible is tiring.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Here is a video of a recitation of the quran. I saw it on the Facebook page of a muslim acquaintance. He is a nice guy and I always enjoy chatting with him. I recognised the video from something Sam Harris wrote about last year. It has over 3 and a half million views.

    It is titled "Beautiful Recitation, People Crying - Must See - Will surely shed your tears."

    It was posted by someone who promised his fellow Muslims that they, too, would weep tears of devotion upon seeing it. The reciter is Sheikh Mishary bin Rashid Alafasy of Kuwait. He has as many Twitter followers as Jerry Seinfeld and J.K. Rowling (2 million). In doctrinal terms, this is not the fringe of Islam. It is the center. - SH

    Pay particular attention to the section from about the 4 minute mark and read the English captions. Notice that the speaker and many others in the mosque are in tears of ecstasy about the fiery torments that await unbelievers.

    THIS is the central message of the quran.

    ...

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    I suppose the Islamophiles would have us believe either that the sheikh and the others in that vid aren't true muslims, or that the subtitles were a mistranslation

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    This a good vid to post, in that for me it sums up what religion is all about.

    Lots of emotion, unrealistic hope, and little else.

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