The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen (page 28)

sunny23

I stopped reading a few pages in when it turned into scenarios where its ok to slap a woman. My spouse could demean me in the worst ways imaginable and I would leave her before I slap her. If leaving wasn't an option I wouldn't slap her as it would not make the situation any better, trust me. In fact maybe I should record her reaction when I approach her today and tell her about why I might slap her if she ever does such and such repeatedly, her response might leave me on the floor in a bloody pool as a new found eunich.

On to the rest. Reza has been meticulously deconstructed by Harris and others to the point I will no longer hear what he has to say, yes I have seen all posted videos thus far. In fact to get a more accurate perspective of Sam Hariis' view of Islam and Reza you MUST watch this 3hr long interview/debate. I might watch it again to refresh but its only 2 months old I believe.

Terry:

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-young-turks-interview

Also the actions and words of Reza on several occasions not limited to just this following link have been appauling and I find Harris to be much more composed, objective, and respectable...

https://www.samharris.org/blog/item/on-the-mechanics-of-defamation

JD: At least Christianity can fall back on the concept of Jesus actions and salvation through grace etc and have over the centuries become less violent and have reformed to the point that the bible and OT are not used in defense for slavery or violence anymore. Northern Ireland anyone? However Mohammad was a murderous tyrant and "The use of assassination to achieve political/religious goals has been important throughout the history of Arabia and Islamic expansion, and the very word "assassin"[1] has Arabic roots (حشّاشين).

This list contains the results and reasons for the targeted killings and assassinations ordered or supported by Prophet Muhammad, as well as the primary sources which mention these incidents.".....

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Killings_Ordered_or_Supported_by_Muhammad

Sam Harris' goal is to get Islam entirely up to speed with Christianity in dismissing the bad violent directives and focusing only on the good scriptures or at least finding good reason for not acting on the bad ones. There are far fewer Christian suicide bombers wouldn't you say?

sunny23

Everytime I try to edit that comment it auto deletes half of it so I have to double post sorry:

Just adding to the list of murders ordered by Muhammad. Its easier to dismiss violence in the bible and go with what Jesus did and said as he didn't murder and advocate murder directly to his followers, he taught the opposite even in regards to enemies trying to kill you. Contrast that with Muhammad and what he did and said combined with the Quran verses posted here thusfar. Can you agree JD that because of the wording of scripture and types of prophets that Islam should by no surprise exhibit a higher frequency of groups like ISIS than Christianity based on human game theory over time?

cofty

Michelle - As far as the fate of atheists and heathens there are as many opinions as there are theists.

It's nice that you choose to believe in a big softy god who likes atheists but it's still all gibberish.

In revelation nothing is said about punishment for casual bystanders either but for those who come up against or oppose Christ

I think Jesus is not a good person and totally unworthy of admiration let alone worship. He was a failed apocalyptic prophet and dangerous cult leader who broke up families - if in fact he ever existed. Apparently his ego is so big he can't stand it when people don't like him. Too bad.

sunny23

True, not saying Jesus was perfect and he did talk of coming destructions he would bring for non belief. Just making the contrast between religions to emphasize how and why Islam is and should be considered "the motherload of bad ideas."

myelaine

dear cofty...

the bible is silent on people that don't believe in God. If you wish to see something that isn't there based on peoples opinions, that is your prerogative, isn't it?

that you don't see Jesus as someone who desires to cleanse the earth of negative forces in opposition to the well-being of mankind in general is your prerogative as well...but, that is what the bible portrays Jesus Christ as doing. His agenda isn't as "petty" as you seem to believe...His mission is a worldwide freedom from oppression. I can confidently assume He's actually thinking about the "poor" men, women and children whereas you're not. (Romans 8:20-22)

I'm sorry, it's not all about you.

love michelle

cofty

I can confidently assume He's actually thinking about the "poor" men, women and children

Michelle - When you can explain god's unwillingness/inability to prevent the annihilation of 250 000 men, women and children in a tsunami then we can discuss your nonsense about how much he loves poor people...

Until then I suppose we will have to settle for the usual vacuous christian platitudes.

Viviane

the bible is silent on people that don't believe in God.

It absolutely is NOT silent on them. Why don't Christians actually ever really know the holy book they claim to know?

That you don't see Jesus as someone who desires to cleanse the earth of negative forces in opposition to the well-being of mankind in general is your prerogative as well.

Jesus and the NT were OK with slavery, genocide, murder and rape. Which negative forces are you thinking they were against?

His mission is a worldwide freedom from oppression. I can confidently assume He's actually thinking about the "poor" men, women and children whereas you're not. (Romans 8:20-22)

Jesus never once said he would end oppression. In fact, he spoke highly of a culture that was OK was slavery. The Bible, have you read it?

LoveUniHateExams

Jesus and the NT were OK with slavery, genocide, murder and rape. Which negative forces are you thinking they were against? - sex before marriage.

myelaine

dear cofty...

every time God has stepped in to "sort out" the mess of mankind there was judgement involved...when He steps in again there will be judgement involved. As heart wrenching as it is to see our fellow man suffer...the bible does indicate that sometimes in order to keep man for Himself, He delivers them by their physical death. (...lead me not into temptation but deliver me from evil...) I understand that is a hard concept to grasp because it doesn't sit well with us but, it is a concept that had it's origin in the flood...God destroyed in judgement knowing that the children themselves would be led into the evil of their parents. He didn't want the children led into evil by their parents and so He kept them for Himself...He delivered them from evil. I see the same thing in His cleansing of the land by the israelite army and in S&G...He has the best interests of the "innocent" in mind, even if we don't see it or can't see it.

dear Vivian...

confirming something happened is just that. You're making an argument from silence.

love michelle

cofty

He didn't want the children led into evil by their parents and so He kept them for Himself...He delivered them from evil.

So according to you god drowned thousands of children in the Asian tsunami in order to "deliver them from evil".

This right here is why I hate theism with a passion. It is a wicked, contemptible ideology.

The best way to cure a reasonable person of belief in god is to let his fans explain their beliefs.

Thank you Michelle for exposing your imaginary god's psychopathy better than I ever could.

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

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