The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen (page 27)

Viviane

As I've already said, let's leave it alone.

Oh, dear. No. Just... no.

The Quran also says God may show mercy to those who do good regardless of their belief... But you ignore that completely.

Why should that not be ignored? It doesn't portray god is a good light. It's simply another example of it's capriciousness and psychopathy.

Let's leave the judgement of right and wrong to christ if he shows up, and time if he doesn't. I'm okay with that.

So, unless an invisible spirit guy shows up and decides to punish bad guys, they get off free? Wow, that seems like a terrible idea.

I was under the impression that being a christian obligated a person to accept that Christ was right...and that what He taught about forgiveness, salvation, the uncompromising righteousness of God...the gospel...was His final say on the matter.

If you believe that at His return He'll have a different final say that leaves room for other anti-Christ belief (not merely ingnorance) then I don't think you've grasped the seriousness of sin or repentence or the absolute love of the Father for mankind in subjecting His beloved Son TO our sin.

WHERE is the mind of Christ in anything you've put forth in this thread?

the way I see it is that YOU can take a comfy rest from this thread. Jesus and the apostles couldn't. In the face of opposition they laboured. If you so blithly dismiss the final revelation of the gospel in your acceptence of the anti-christ koran too then you'd better be prepared to defend your position...to the shedding of blood...if it is required.(hebrews 12:1-4)

love michelle <3

p.s. picture this...in the field of battle you're all like "whatever you say dude", while I'm getting my head lopped off...YOU are not to be relied upon for christian support of any kind.

Jonathan Drake

@myelaine

in my opinion, I think you just hate the qoran and are personally biased, which prevents you from being able to see beyond your current understsnding.

I would posit to you that you missed the point of Jesus message. It's not your place to decide what is or is not anti Christ, or who is wrong or right. This, once again, has been something I've said many times in different ways. I'm maintaining the position of an opinion that the qoran is being misunderstood without saying anyone is necessarily wrong. I'm trying to get you all to see that while you may be right, you might be wrong- something I have no problem readily admitting. Whereas, you want me to say your right- and I will not. (Matt7:1,2)

i feel quite comfortable not judging one way or the other, and instead maintaining faith, and hope for the best for all. (1 Cor 13:4-13)

myelaine

" It's not your place to decide what is or is not anti Christ, or who is wrong or right"...

yeah...and those apostles of Christ...pretty nervy too, hey? by whose authority did they assume to teach and identify anti-christ anyway...Wow...those guys...sheesh.

If only they would have been as modest in their appraisal as you...

Viviane

I would posit to you that you missed the point of Jesus message. It's not your place to decide what is or is not anti Christ, or who is wrong or right.
i feel quite comfortable not judging one way or the other
None of the citations from the Hadith matter.
But that doesn't mean I would ever beat my wife.
as far as the Book of Mormon goes- that book is insane. I won't touch it because it is not inspired and goes beyond the bible.
But the discussion began with misunderstood statements about the Quran which I corrected with the context and other verses
With all due respect to all of you, if you don't want to hear an opposing view, then keep yours to yourself. Not everyone will agree with you, and you just have to deal with it.
Adam died ushering in all sin and death, Jesus died bringing hope and life.. That's what those verses are saying, not me. I just happen to agree with them.
And I would hit her as well- BECAUSE ITS DESCRIBING NORMAL HUMAN BEHAVIOR IN A HEATED SITUATION WHERE PEOPLE ARE SEVERELY MISTREATING ONE ANOTHER.
It'd be better just to let it drop and not let any rifts form between us and/or any readers that disrupt the forum somehow. aside from you viv, because I think I will just dislike you permanently.

I just think it's hilarious to claim you don't judge and then collect just a few of the times you do judge (and, for good measure, suggest everyone shutup if they don't want a debate while you repeatedly ask for the debate to stop).

As I said, you are an excellent representative sample of a Christian.

Simon

JD: If someone is writing an important message, a set of instructions to follow and it is VERY important that people follow them to the letter then it's the writers job to communicate in a clear and unequivocal way that leaves no room for misinterpretation or confusion.

The fact that there are an abundance of ways that people interpret both holy books shows that both are nothing by badly written works of men and not the inspired utterances you seem to want them to be.

If you need some form of special understanding that puts them beyond most people then what of the claim that they are messages from god for our benefit? Again, the story doesn't add up - theists never seem able to stick to a plot. They jump around making claim and counter claim that contradict each other. It's why trying to have a rational discussion with a religious person is so often a complete waste of time.

If the point of either book is meant to be god telling people how they should live then shouldn't they be understandable by all people? If they are not then who's fault is that ... other than the writer?

Your choice is whether you want to blame people or god. Your choice.

myelaine

dear JD...

Jesus is clear in His commission. in His name and for His sake the christian was sent out to do battle and take captives...NOT negotiate a settlement. (matthew 10:34)

I don't fear being judged by the same measure and in like manner. I fully expect to be judged and that's why I practice discernment. Honestly I don't think that you have been slain by the sword of the Spirit and that's why you aren't captive to it. (Rev. 13:9-10)

Jesus was involved in a spiritual battle, He called us to spiritual battle. mohammad was not involved in a spiritual battle when he received the koran. His battles were entirely physical. You proposing that "perhaps" the koran is misunderstood NOW is a moot point, really. It presupposes that Jesus shares space in the market place of ideas when He said Himself..."My kingdom is not of this world." (john 18:36) the fact that people are making a move to "spiritualize" the koran now only makes the "spiritual enemy" that Jesus spoke of more clear.

love michelle <3

Viviane

love michelle <3

You keep saying "love", but everything you talk about is the product of a bloodsoaked raging psychopath.

cofty

Viv - when "the god and father of Jesus" punishes people who believe in the wrong god - or shockingly in no god - it is an act of perfect love that he torments them for all eternity in a big hot fire.

Silly you.

Honestly I don't think that you have been slain by the sword of the Spirit and that's why you aren't captive to it.

Gibberish.

myelaine

dear cofty...

I don't recall the NT saying anything about punishment for people who believe in no God and as far as punishment for people who believe in the wrong God...the bible says that at the return of Jesus Christ those who are punished willfully deny Him and do not repent. Instead of admitting they were wrong as an act of repentance, they wish that the rocks would fall on them and they seek death. In revelation nothing is said about punishment for casual bystanders either but for those who come up against or oppose Christ and those who have found shelter with Him.

you think I speak gibberish but my comments were not directed to you but to JD. (ie: a firefighter will tell you that to suppress an out of control wildfire, digging a trench and starting a fire is prescribed...it's called fighting fire with fire)

love michelle <3

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

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