The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom 303 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  myelaine

  dear Vivian...

  I explained previously how God was able to redeem the horrible situation of the tsunami by redeeming the people killed. I didn't say (as you suggest) that God allowed it to happen because He wanted company. I'd like to remind you of the fact that we are discussing actual people and they deserve to be discussed with dignity. I think it's vulgar the way you bring them into the conversation like some kind of offence to you that God has to answer for.

  the bible says that what God created was good. The bible says that after man fell the earth was put under man's dominion. God never said He was going to keep man from every calamity that can befall him. God never said He was going to keep the earth safe for man to live on.

  God's priority (according to the bible) was not the flesh of man but the soul of man. He has a view beyond our physical comfort. He's looking towards the future when man can be, once again, in His company...like the intimacy of the garden BEFORE man's fall.

  love michelle
• 

  Viviane

  Elaine, you're the one that worships a god either directly responsible for the tragedy or one who simply took advantage of it to steal souls for his own personal company.

  Either way, you using words like dignity and attempting to take the moral highground when you willingly worship a blood soaked raging psychopath who murders on a whim is comedy of the sickest order.
• 

  Village Idiot

  @ myelaine:

  "I'd like to remind you of the fact that we are discussing actual people and they deserve to be discussed with dignity. I think it's vulgar the way you bring them into the conversation like some kind of offence to you that God has to answer for."

  That statement could be considered ironic.
• 

  myelaine

  Vivian...

  God didn't allow the tsunami "in order to take advantage of it to steal souls for His own company"...anymore than He takes advantage of any death. People die. At any time that they die and in any manner He will redeem the persons soul to Himself.

  As an atheist I understand that you don't believe that there is any redeption in a situation like a tsunami...it is an act of nature that had horrible consequences. As a believer in the God of the bible, as someone who believes that God can and did redeem the situation. I'm the one who is finding and pointing out the moral high ground and you're not. You CAN'T find any moral high ground in the situation of a tsunami (as an atheist) because natural occurances don't happen with any thought to morality.

  It is only by introducing God and His action of redeeming the bad situation that morality can be discussed. God took the moral high ground, Vivian...and I pointed it out. God dignified their person (whether they were good or bad) in the act of redemption.
• 

  Simon

  As a believer in the God of the bible, as someone who believes that God can and did redeem the situation. I'm the one who is finding and pointing out the moral high ground and you're not.

  Sorry, you don't have the moral high ground. You and your murderous god are crawling in the ditch of humanity. You excuse any suffering with a wave of his magical hand.

  Sorry, I find your opinions vile. Please don't post such tripe on this forum anymore because it makes me want to vomit when I hear the utter drivel that you people spew without any feeling or empathy whatsoever.

  Your god is a psychopath. If he could stop suffering and choses not to then he's a monster.

  Moral high ground is calling good and evil what they truly are and holding ALL creatures accountable on scale that doesn't change based on who is being measured.
• 

  Village Idiot

  myelaine: "I'm the one who is finding and pointing out the moral high ground and you're not."

  I may have missed the post where you answered but I previously asked why such 'redemption' requires a premature death. I take it, that from your point of view, some of those people would turn 'evil' and thus offend God by becoming unredeemable.

  A little bit of logic here. Can't some of those victims be unredeemed at that moment but redeemed in the future?

  Never mind, I do not have the mind of 'God' and am thus guilty of presumptuousness.
• 

  cofty

  Or maybe you'd like to just stick to the fact that it was a natural occurance?

  This is a retreat into deism. We discussed this at length in the original thread.

  Your imaginary god is the vilest of mythical creatures. He is the epitome of evil, capricious, psychopathic narcissism.
• 

  Viviane

  God didn't allow the tsunami "in order to take advantage of it to steal souls for His own company"...anymore than He takes advantage of any death.

  Slow down.

  God either created the universe and rules which directly led to the tsunami or he didn't. If he did, it's his fault because he his all powerful and all knowing and knew it would happen. If he didn't and he is merely redeeming souls (whatever that means), he is simply an opportunistic soul thief. Either way, God is

  God didn't allow the tsunami "in order to take advantage of it to steal souls for His own company"...anymore than He takes advantage of any death.

  What does redeeming mean?

  I'm the one who is finding and pointing out the moral high ground and you're not. You CAN'T find any moral high ground in the situation of a tsunami (as an atheist) because natural occurances don't happen with any thought to morality.

  You've yet to explain how your god being responsible or redeeming i high ground. Claiming things is easy. You've done that. Demonstrating those claims is harder. That you've not done.
• 

  Village Idiot

  "I'm the one who is finding and pointing out the moral high ground and you're not. You CAN'T find any moral high ground in the situation of a tsunami (as an atheist) because natural occurances don't happen with any thought to morality."

  There is no "moral high ground" in a tsunami or any other natural disaster.
• 

  myelaine

  dear Vivian...

  in the bible redeeming is taking back. when anyone has died a physical death, God redeems their soul.

  You said,"You've yet to explain how your god being responsible or redeeming i high ground. Claiming things is easy. You've done that. Demonstrating those claims is harder. That you've not done."...

  I thought I had explained it. God imbued man with dignity when he was created. Then man fell. God recognizes man's dignity (in spite of his fall) and still acts to redeem him.

  
  

  dear cofty...

  yes God is all powerful, that doesn't mean He's going to or is even required to step in and avert natural disasters. That He has stepped in to judge man at the flood and that He has promised to step in with judgement of man again is not deist belief. The bible as the word of God doesn't fit with deist belief either, does it? God steps in for judgement when He steps in.

  dear VI...

  I think you've lost the plot pretty quickly. No, early death is not a requirement of redemption. People die at all ages. The only thing required for redemption is God willing to redeem. The bible says that when Christ comes to judge again there are going to be some redeemed who haven't died.

  dear Simon...

  you said, "Sorry, I find your opinions vile. Please don't post such tripe on this forum anymore because it makes me want to vomit when I hear the utter drivel that you people spew without any feeling or empathy whatsoever."...

  right. got it. Any thoughts or opinions that don't concur with your thoughts or opinions on the subject is utter drivel, lacking feeling and empathy and you don't want it posted. you might want to add that to your posting guidelines so that you can deny freedom of speech with more transparency. Chao baby.

  love michelle <3