The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom 303 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Jonathan Drake

  You are promoting your version of Jesus. Every Christian does that. You are picking the parts you like and ignoring the rest and telling us they've got it all wrong while telling us your version is right. That's pretty much exactly what Christianity is...

  I wasn't going to respond to this thread anymore, but I will respond to this. I have not promoted any view of Jesus except specifically, word for word, what the bible and Quran say about him. I did not interpret it to mean anything, I did not ignore anything it says. I positioned a scripture to speak for itself. If you think the scripture is saying something other than it's words do, we disagree and I don't mind that. But as I've said, I don't care whether any of you believe it, and getting you to is not my responsibility. But where I see the verses being positioned incorrectly, I will put them back in context saying what they are truly saying. Whether you accept that the book disagrees with your preconceived ideas, as well as the majority of the faith claiming the book as its own - is not my concern. I only care about representing the text as saying what it does so that an informed decision is made, if you still think it says something it doesn't in the face of word for word proof of otherwise - that's fine. I don't care.
• 

  Viviane

  I wasn't going to respond to this thread anymore, but I will respond to this. I have not promoted any view of Jesus except specifically, word for word, what the bible and Quran say about him

  That is EXACTLY my point. You've not promoted Jesus except when you have and what you feel the Bible and other scripture says about him according to you. Welcome to being exactly like every other Christian in the world.
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  Jonathan Drake

  according to you
  

  Wrong. im not doing this with you again. Your putting words in my mouth, I positioned the verses TO SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. I have no idea how many more times I'll have to say this to people before it is actually understood. Think what you want about them, I don't care, and convincing you of any particular view isn't my job or desire. Continuing to respond and convince me, however, of something IS preaching, which I have not done. 
  
• 

  Viviane

  Wrong. im not doing this with you again. Your putting words in my mouth, I positioned the verses TO SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

  According to you, those verses speak for themselves (and happen to agree with you). I put no words in your mouth. You claim they speak for themselves and then tell us what they mean. You are the same an every other preaching christian.
  
• 

  cofty

  Every christian claims to follow the simple word of scripture and denies putting their own spin on it.

  The WT claim that they let the bible talk for itself.

  Its all nonsense. Anybody who can claim the quran is not a licence to oppress women is incapable of reading anything objectively.
• 

  Jonathan Drake

  You are the same an every other preaching christian.

  Wrong. Every other christian would tell you to enjoy hell and say hi to a relative they hate. Feel free to review my posts and reach the proper conclusion of what I actually did and said, because I feel preaching is wrong, and I feel saying such things as they would to you now is wrong. I've said so many times across this board.

  just because I will not allow a statement to go uncorrected doesn't mean I care whether or not the person accepts the reality of what the book says. I positioned the verses I did expecting there to be rebuttal, but ultimately how a person feels about it is up to them. I have not pressed my views on anyone and in fact took steps to avoid it. I've only responded with verse quotation. If you think it says something other than the words on the page that's your call, and you might be right. I just won't agree, and I have no idea how some who have posted here have reached the conclusions they have - but it's their conclusion to reach.

  With all due respect to all of you, if you don't want to hear an opposing view, then keep yours to yourself. Not everyone will agree with you, and you just have to deal with it. 

  i don't agree with cofty nor does cofty with me. And I'm okay with that, it's the nature of people. Same with Simon. But viv, you do in fact back pedal and reverse yiur stand and say people said things they didn't and that you didn't when you did and it's exhausting and aggravating. So let's you and I just stay away from each other once it is clear we cannot agree- and here we will not. 

  I did not try to tell anyone what any verse I quoted means, I quoted it and it spoke for itself. I do not appreciate being slandered as interpreting scriptures my own way as I do not do this - I take them as they are and put a lot of effort into placing them in their proper context to understand their cultural references and the events that surrounded them. I do not just say they mean whatever I want, because if I did that I'd still be a JW and I am not. 
• 

  Viviane

  Wrong. Every other christian would tell you to enjoy hell and say hi to a relative they hate.

  Wrong again. Not all Christians would say that. You are just like every other preaching Christian. 

  just because I will not allow a statement to go uncorrected doesn't mean I care whether or not the person accepts the reality of what the book says

  The Koran and Bible preach hate and death. You disagreeing because you think you are different doesn't change that plain and obvious fact. 

  I have not pressed my views on anyone and in fact took steps to avoid it.

  To the contrary, you've not only pressed your views, you've argued for how they are different and, when presented with evidence showing your bias, wrong views and dishonesty when representing others views, complained about it. 

  With all due respect to all of you, if you don't want to hear an opposing view, then keep yours to yourself. Not everyone will agree with you, and you just have to deal with it.

  Look in the mirror and repeat that to yourself.

  But viv, you do in fact back pedal and reverse yiur stand and say people said things they didn't and that you didn't when you did and it's exhausting and aggravating. So let's you and I just stay away from each other once it is clear we cannot agree- and here we will not. 

  Interesting fiction. You've yet to show a single example of that, so fiction it shall remain.  You are free to avoid any challenge to your belief if you wish. I, however, have no such need to shrink away from reality. You're agreement is wholly indifferent to reality existing.

   I do not appreciate being slandered as interpreting scriptures my own way as I do not do this - I take them as they are and put a lot of effort into placing them in their proper context to understand their cultural references and the events that surrounded them. I do not just say they mean whatever I want, because if I did that I'd still be a JW and I am not. 

  That's exactly what every other Christian does. Basically you are saying "Those fake Christians try to tell you what the Bible says and they are wrong! Now, let me tell you what the Bible says." 

  You are the exact same as every other Christian, you just can't admit it.
• 

  Simon

  It sounds like you want to decide what every Christian, Muslim and Atheist does and doesn't believe and what they would say and how they will act.

  Seems a little presumptuous to me.
• 

  OrphanCrow

  Simon: It sounds like you want to decide what every Christian, Muslim and Atheist does and doesn't believe and what they would say and how they will act.
  Seems a little presumptuous to me.

  "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."

     - Susan B. Anthony
• 

  Jonathan Drake

  Show me where I said other Christians are fake Christians? I said they don't listen to their own book, not that they were insincere. 

  Youre still ill putting words in my mouth. I can't even begin to explain how much I dislike you. Please stop slandering me and concocting your nonsense.