Men who lie with men.....

by cindykp 188 Replies latest jw friends

  • jimbob
    jimbob
    Personally, I don't have sex anymore because I have chosen to be celibate.

    Barney....this quote along with your avitar is evidence of your confusion and frustration.

    But seriously, I've learned since leaving the JW's that I was way too judgmental. I think we all were. I've learned not to judge someone just because of their sexual orientation. Of course, I don't believe in the bible either. There's lots of things people do that we don't agree with, but such is life. The best part about not being a JW is that we have the freedom to choose how we live.

  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    *sigh*

    I wish I had seen this thread earlier. Or not.

    So today "they" are not trying to populate the earth with their culture and their people? I don't follow you on that one... Plus it is a proven fact that homosexuality does spread disease. I know there are people here who feel that it is prejudicial to claim that homosexuality is wrong, but murder is wrong isn't it? So how can you condone one act that ends with premature death and not another? Or are you kind of saying that a form of genocide disguised as a harmless sexual act is ok?

    Barney, I don't know what to think about some of your questions. If you really don't understand...I am glad you asked. I USED to believe like you and Truth Seeker and even Chappy ! So it's a little hard for me to get really angry at you guys. Since I had a JW background...I know where my distrust and therefore my hatred of gay people came from, I was TAUGHT from the beginning what others said was right.

    Know your enemy (gay?) and know yourself (hetero?): This BEGS a question from each of you...How sure are you...that you are heterosexual? Really...convince me with actual reasons...how and why you actually KNOW that you are NOT gay?

    I am going to assume you just exhaled sharply and muttered ...WTF? "This stupid rabbit is doubting MY SEXUALITY ? HOW DARE HE !" Am I right ? Or maybe a little close...?

    Good. MY point is this...who the HELL am I to doubt what you feel about YOUR sexuality ? I have NO right. And neither do you have the right or luxury to doubt another persons sexual orientation. It would be like you telling me I don't really love 'dark chocolate', when I know I do! Or, that it is WRONG somehow to love 'dark chocolate.' I actually like threads like this for one reason...there is an exchange of ideas about something that has instilled fear in people throughout history. The biggest fears come into our hearts from ignorance, prejudice and the mysterious unknown. My hope is that you will be open-minded enough to at least consider...that you do not 'know-it-all'.

    To expand a little on seven006's very pointed post: He mentioned "hermaphrodites", also called "intersexed" people. These "natural born children of God" are born with differing degrees of both male and female genitalia. What is YOUR judgment for them ? During their lifetime, should they be allowed to date ? Have sex ? Some are more pronounced as females...others more male, some 50/50. Who will YOU allow them to have sex with ? Or marry ? Males, females ? Bi-sexual males or females ? Or gay males or females ?

    Remember, it is YOUR judgment and YOUR responsibility to 'save Earth' and prevent these 'natural born children of YOUR God' from "spreading their agenda & culture from spreading throughout mankind". (And since they have human feelings, like you...be nice.)

    Intersexed persons are believed to result when there is either too much or not enough hormones being produced by the mothers body during gestation. Boy babies without enough testosterone will not develop as fully. Female babies may have male characteristics, if there is too much.

    It is not understood why that happens. There also have been certain differences seen in brain scans between heterosexual & homosexual men. Their brain is "wired" differently. That is NOT understood either, perhaps someday it will be known to science. Meanwhile, I do not see how someone else's sexuality affects me or you...in any way shape or form. I will not be a party to discrimination anymore. I have enjoyed knowing and learning about an entire group of people, that I was previously taught to hate and revile. I once turned in a close JW friend to the Elders when I discovered his 'secret' of being born gay. He already suffered from acute depression. The WT promises to "cure gays of their sinful desires", he was dating several sisters (including mine). The "cure" did not work, just like Gretchen explained, he went thru the motions...without true feelings. After I turned my best friend in..he was promptly DF'd. Thrown out like trash ! For being true to himself...

    I have not been able to find him again, dispite several searches. Suicide, because of his depression and then total loss of all his friends thru WT shunning, is a real possibility. I owe him an apology, I hope I get the chance to ask his forgiveness for my stupidity.

    See what happens when you start deciding and judging what's 'best' or 'wrong' for someone else ???

    I do...now.

    Rabbit

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    One of the best things about this board is that it opens you to hear the point of view of all sorts of people, to whom we would otherwise not come into contact with.

    This thread has stayed in my mind overnight and I would like to add a little to my earlier post.

    If I have taken a dislike to someone who is gay, I realise that the reason is just because of their individual attitude or behaviour , not just because of their being gay....Since I stopped allowing the Gov. Body to do my thinking for me, I have had a lot of changes in my thinking and no doubt I will continue to do so. I still find an inward antipathy toward the idea of "Men who lie with men" , but that need not necessarily mean an antipathy for the person.

    The super posts from Gretchen and Rabbit are food for ongoing thought

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    The Kinsey Scale is interesting in this regard:
    http://gaylife.about.com/cs/gay101/a/kinsey.htm

    On a scale of one to seven I'm a 2.
    I'm hetero, but have no difficulty with anyone who is homosexual, and I continue to be my gregarious and tactile self, in their presence. I have deeply considered the issue, and whilst I can pick out a handsome man from a crowd, I feel no sexual leanings that way at all (sorry Preston ). Coupled with that fact is that I'm an equal opportunity flirter...
    LOL

  • JustTickledPink
    JustTickledPink

    I like Avisha's point about a lot of married/straight/dating whatever heterosexual people have anal and oral sex. Is the act cleaner because it's between a man and a woman?

    Maybe we should all be straight and go back to the missionary position. That would solve it all.

  • m0nk3y
    m0nk3y
    Brenda
    Homosexuality is a reality in many species of the animal kingdom, not just humans. Now, do lower animals have a choice in their sexuality?

    You hit the nail on the head - in more ways than one.

    Animals do not have a choice - they just do.

    Humans have conscious awareness and can make decisions for themselves.

    And that is exacly what we do, as a gay man my conscience is one hundred percent guilt free with my relationship, sex etc. However, religion once played a nasty role in how my conscience worked, you see it's not really your conscience if your doing or not doing something because of what someone else tells you to do, especially if you are threatened on a daily basis with death, hell or other related bullshit.

    It still shocks me today to see hetrosexuals (usually men *snicker*) make such a big deal about gay's (usually gay men, *snicker* as lesbian sex is something that most hetro men are crazy about) I mean really why do you care so god damn much ?!

    You people really need a good hobby to keep your interest and leave us gays be, I mean we have so much to do, with having sex with children and spreading AIDS and such .. it's work work work till the grave you know. It's a hard life but someone has to keep you uptight prudes entertained *groan*

  • Swan
    Swan
    You people really need a good hobby to keep your interest and leave us gays be, I mean we have so much to do, with having sex with children and spreading AIDS and such .. it's work work work till the grave you know. It's a hard life but someone has to keep you uptight prudes entertained *groan*

    LOL!

    Don't forget recruiting! You have to meet those quotas if you want to get that toaster oven.

    Tammy

  • avishai
    avishai
    It still shocks me today to see hetrosexuals (usually men *snicker*) make such a big deal about gay's (usually gay men, *snicker* as lesbian sex is something that most hetro men are crazy about)

    Which is reallly messed up, because gay men are'nt a threat to straight men at all. Lesbian's can, will, and sometimes do steal your girlfriend, wife, etc.

  • beebee
    beebee

    There is so much still be learned about human sexuality. We have abilities that few, if any other species share. For example, what they call "hidden" ovulation. You cannot tell if a women is ovulating (at least on any conscience level, there may be subliminal ways we are unaware of like scent). Humans are capable (and often willing) to have sex 24/7/365. Then there is the orgasm; we already know that few mammals enjoy sex like humans.

    Whether or not you believe we were all created by G-d or just an accident of nature, humans were built to experience sexual pleasure. Most of us know how powerful the human sex drive can be. For a religion, whose goal is to control its membership (and this is the true point of most religions), controlling sexuality is a MUST because they compete with it.

    Dictating whom you can have sex with, and when, gives the organization a fair amount of control over the humans within their organization.

    Yes, sex can spread disease. This has always been true, gay or straight. Long before AIDS, Syphillis was killing often, and it crossed all economic and racial lines.

    So yes, even without religion, there are valid reasons for controlling sexual behavior because of disease and so that there are fathers who can support the children born of the group.

    As to homosexuality, we must keep in mind that infant mortality has been a huge issue during most of mankind's history, and that until recent history, all cultures were agrarian. More children meant more people, more people meant more labor. More labor meant larger crops and more food, a stronger economy, etc. Homosexual behavior does not bring forth children.

    That would seem to be the reason for the prohibition. However in the modern world, that point is moot. We have more than enough humans, and plenty who are already starving or dependent upon others to survive, and population growth has not stopped.

    The idea that marriage exists only for the production and rearing of children is also archaic and outdated. There is no requirement that ANY couple be "fruitful and multiply." If proof of fertility was a requirement, then lots of straight couples could not marry. If you added to that requirement an intent to have children, then you'd have even fewer couples who would qualify to marry.

    Love isn't rational, it is emotional, and we love whomever we love. Sexual attraction is an area for which even the scientists do not have all the answers on.

    Why humans must seek simple and pat answers to every complexity in life puzzles me. I am not gay, but I cannot think of a single reason why I should have a problem with someone who is gay, even if that is my child. And I don't think anyone else should tell me who to love or hate.

  • Makena1
    Makena1

    Barney - your type of "reasoning" is one of the main reasons that my brain shuts down when bible thumpers open their mouths.

    Besides, don't you know that most STD's can trace their origin from religious hypocrites that found sexual release by having intercourse with sheep because the sheep could not attend confession?

    I can prove the above statement about as well as you can prove yours.

    If your belief system works for you - fine, but keep it to your self.

    Now, where is my hot lesbian porn DVD?

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