a friend in need

by OldSoul 604 Replies latest members private

• 

  shadow

  To help Old Soul, I thought I would go ahead and post our brief exchange.

  OS:I am looking for scriptural proofs that
  1) the Faithful and Discreet Slave is a class of people,
  
  SH: As far as the express term having that meaning, not sure, but don't consider it to be a decisive factor.
  
  
  OS: (2) that the holy spirit directs organizations in addition to individuals,
  
  SH: Since an 'organization' does not possess consciousness, it seems evident that only individuals could be directed. An organization may have a distinctive culture or agree to be bound by certain covenants, but the source will always be individuals.
  
  
  OS: (3) that the Faithful and Discreet Slave is responsible for revealing "new light" (as opposed to "food at the proper time") to anyone, and finally
  
  SH: Not sure what you are getting at here.
  
  
  OS: (4) that Jehovah deals with individual other sheep differently than the little flock.
  
  SH: Could you be more specific? It does seem clear from the scriptures that there are separate groups that will attain salvation.
  
  (1 Peter 2:9) 9 But YOU are ?a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that YOU should declare abroad the excellencies? of the one that called YOU out of darkness into his wonderful light.
  
  (Revelation 5:10) and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.?
  
  (Revelation 20:6) Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.
  
  (1 Corinthians 15:50-53) 50 However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God?s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality.
• 

  BrendaCloutier

  So, OldSoul, a friend in need,

  Is or is not the Bible - New World Translation (tm) - the basis for doctrine of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (tm) and Jehovah's Witnesses (tm) ?

  And if it is, why is there such difficulty answering some very important questions on the doctrine and leadership of the above referenced groups using the NWT or any other bible as basis?

  If it is not, then why not just say so, a friend in need, and be done with it?

  I really do want to know these answers. And, AFIN seems to be ignoring my questions.
• 

  shadow

  For most of the doctrine it is, but subject to misapplication.

  Other rules and customs go beyond the Bible and may or may not be appropriate.
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  BrendaCloutier

  oops, I didn't mean to shout quite so loudly.
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  kls

  What did ya say Brenda? Didn't quit hear ya ,,,,,,lol
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  jaredg

  come on nobody thought my picture was funny....how about this one

  
• 

  Kenneson

  A friend in need responds "Kenneson--since when do I have to answer questions? Is that why you are here?"

  I think that in my numerous posts and threads on this forum I have answered far more questions than you ever will think to ask.
• 

  shadow

  OS: As I explained to afin, I am not really asking questions so much as attmpting to find the scriptural proof of the answers. I will try again to frame the answers in a way that you will more readily understand my concerns. Maybe if I include the questions answered by each of these four it will help you understand my dilemma better.
  
  Who really is the faithful and discreet slave ...?
  
  1) the Faithful and Discreet Slave is a class of humans ... but they are not clergy, nor are they prophets (w02 10/1 p. 17 paragraph 22). But collectively "as a class" they are God's channel, or instrument for providing food at the proper time (w95 8/1 p. 16).
  
  I am an avid student of the Bible. As far as I can determine, the Scriptures do not prove the nature of this Faithful and Discreet Slave at all, that is, I cannot find where the scriptures bear out that this figurative slave is a "class" of people. There seems to be a great deal of well conditioned assumption linking one Scripture to a much broader concept than the Scripture actually addresses.
  
  And I find even less Scriptural backing for this class being solely responsible for revealing truth, which touches on answer #3, but we can deal with it later.
  
  Perhaps you could just start with this one?
  ___________________________________________________________________
  
  SH: If the scriptures using this term are being misapplied and should really refer to individuals rather than a class, would that preclude the formation of some organizational administration that could be instrumental in helping people adhere to the scriptures? If those scriptures were not applied in the way that they are and the arrangement was still the same would there still be a problem?
• 

  Daughter of Freedom

  Me thinks that AFIN is only here to waste our time and use up our valuable post limit to stop us all having a conversation that is really useful and constructive. I would like to say that I have never seen so much crap as what AFIN has written, but as I was a JW for 21 years, I would be lying!!! It is sad that so many of us open minded people have allowed so much of our precious time to be pissed all over by someone claiming to be a JW, though cannot possibly be if she is participating in this forum. I am ashamed of myself for getting involved in this because it is embarrasing for any forward thinking person to put up with the deceit, insults and ignorance shown by AFIN. My heart went out to Big Tex. The fact that AFIN saw his tale as a challenge is galling. Big Hugs to Big Tex by the way. Also, AFIN I did have questions, VERY simple ones, that I asked my PO about. He could not answer them, so stick that where the sun don't shine. The JWs, smug in their own stupid ignorance do not have the answers. Hopefully you will waste all of your post limits soon because you talk crap. If anyone here feels like it's 100 to 1, that's because this site is NOT actually for JW's as JW's are not allowed to partake in such discussion, therefore, you would reasonably conclude from that, that most people here are ex JW's looking to discuss issues. If you are a JW you're in the wrong place. Go to the KH where you will be loved for your closed minded ignorance.

  "I have exorcised the demons"

  
  
  
  
• 

  OldSoul

  Shadow, interestingly, you posted Scriptures that indicate that there would be some separated for a special possession and purpose. But you did not post any Scriptures that indicate that one group would be treated differently than the other group in the same fold, under the same shepherd.

  Also, regarding John 10:16 (the source of my answer), who do you think the Apostles believed the other sheep to be? Us? Or Gentiles? When Jesus said that, none of the keys had been used yet.

  All four answers tie together specifically. Those answers comprise the foundation for belief that Jehovah is using the Faithful and Discreet Slave (as a class, little flock, spirit-directed organization) as his channel. I cannot find any Scriptural backing for the foundational beliefs upon which the claim of spirit-direction is built. I assure you, sincerity I have in spades. But true sincerity precludes weak-mindedness. I will not presume to instruct you and I await your considered reply. I am putting trust in your implication that you do not consider me inferior to you.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul