Hard to get over: No New System
while I was in THE BORG, I could not see life outside as having any meaning....just ending up dead seemed to zap life of any possible meaning it might contain...
but when I actually left I suddenly realized that life still had meaning but I was not at first able to explain why...but gradually it dawned on me that the meaning one finds in life is always relative to ones own contentment... you are always aware that your next move and the move of others has consequences for your happiness and that is the only meaning that exists... I also realized that if death was my ending I would not be around to care any more.
so at first I thought, well, I am now free to experiment, if I mess my life up too much I can always pull the plug... I made a pact with the universe, I would only stay as long as it was fun to stay, as soon as it got painful to the point of making it not worth living I was out... and for a while that gave me a boldness that I had not known before.
then out of curiousity I did past life regressions and now that I have experiences of what seem like past live[s] I am not so sure about death being the end. which is enough to keep me from being too reckless and throwing away a perfectly good body on any stupid extremes.
I think that when my time is up I won't go kicking and screaming which only increases pain and suffering,,instead hopefully I will do it like my grandfather did,, he said to me the day before he died:"It's my time to go,,I lived 84 years that enough, everybody got to die."
I began to think you were going to give the old joke:
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather.
Not screaming and yelling, like the passengers in his car.
We all are like phantoms on this earth. Phantoms who all have eternity embedded in our hearts... I look at my family whom I would give my life for... I can live for them, but not ultimately, because they are simply phantoms after all, like me.
It makes no sense at all--and yet, I can see no other higher sense--to live life for the sake of the love, even of these phantoms around us.
I think we are valuable to God in spite of how transient our lives here appear. I think there is such a thing as Mercy.
Class action lawsuit !!!
I always use to hate this fact, you live through armageddon, everything is going great, and then 1000 years down the road...BAM...Satan is let out....and all hell breaks loose AGAIN! I guess 1000 years just isn't enough of a testing period, God must punish humans AGAIN by holding who knows how many carrots in front of us...see if we pass the test AGAIN! Seems like a hell of alot of tests to pass for eternal life. SOOOO...how long will Satan be allowed to try to tempt humans again? What will he be allowed to do to us? He is going to be some kinda angry after being locked up for 1000 years, time enough to come up with all kinds of evil plots to launch against humans, ressurected ones and the new born. Poor innocents will not know what hit them. Remember the angels are all watching so, it could be universal again, it may take years, decades, millieniums.........for God to really know who is worthy and who is not. The cycle starts all over again!!! That is just sick.
IT IS TOO HOKEY! Too farfetched. I can't imagine God acting like this. Now IF I am made by GOD and I can see the injustice in this, do we really think that God can't see this? Of course he can, feelings that I have were put there by him therefore feelings/all thought/reasoning powers etc that I am capable of, first belonged to HIM X(times) infinity.
Now IF I am made by GOD and I can see the injustice in this, do we really think that God can't see this? Of course he can, feelings that I have were put there by him therefore feelings/all thought/reasoning powers etc that I am capable of, first belonged to HIM X(times) infinity.
It seems to me that simply "test-passing" (being 'worthy') is a poor kind of test. Surely we'd all fail...?
The WTS says only the 144k have the Holy Spirit (or, holy spirit if you prefer), but it seems to me the essential ingredient for anyone to have long-term for "test-passing":
Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
1Jn 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1JN 4:7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
1JN 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
1JN 5:18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him.
you live through armageddon, everything is going great, and then 1000 years down the road...BAM...Satan is let out....and all hell breaks loose AGAIN! I guess 1000 years just isn't enough of a testing period, God must punish humans AGAIN by holding who knows how many carrots in front of us...see if we pass the test AGAIN!
Yup. This is another weird jw belief that I could not comprehend. So, I quit believing this load-a-bull, too.
In fact, I have peeled away all the dub beliefs and replaced them with something healthier and more sensible to me.
It is the only way to survive being raised as a dub. I had to un-brainwash myself.
I guess Jehovah just wants to make sure,,that they are really, really, really never gonna turn on him. He has to exterminate all who would not obey his every comand and let live all the loyal ones in this way he can keep refining them in the future till all the disloyal ones are weeded out. I didn't see any guarentee in the bible that said the testing would ever end.
At any rate this jehovah is a pretty paranoid god. He must of done a real number on his own son jesus to make him leave heaven and get tortured.
I love what Jez said. I'd never thought about how the beauty of watching children grow up would lose it's intrigue and charm. Eventually when the Earth "became full" as was also taught, children were never going to be born. What a tremendous loss so many would have in not having children nor seeing them grow up.
Life is a process. You'd eventually come to the end of that process in, say, a thousand years....then what?
My only frustration with not leaving until in my 30s was the loss of years living with JW thinking so I reasoned, "In the new system, I'm going to do gymnastics and not be afraid of getting hurt; I'm going to learn to play the piano (because I'll have more time and I'll have the sharpness of a young mind forever); I'm going to ski and mountain climb and so on. Now time has passed and it's no longer reasonable for a woman in her 40s to take up gymnastics or mountain climb. Had I not ever "bought into" the live forever thing, I would have LIVED my life. I would have gone to college and had a better career and so forth.
Living for 70, 80 even 90 years seems very reasonable to me. When it's my time to die, it's someone else's time to live. Everyone should have their turn to make an impression on this world and experience life; not just a select few, say, 6,000,000 give or take.
Anewlife: I feel the same: Re: It is our turn now on the earth, we pass that gift onto the new generation and let them have a go. We are one big family, that is why, as long as there are humans on the earth, WE never die. I go on, but have left my impression on this earth. We are layers of humanity and without one layer, the next could not happen. There is a fantastic picture, "The swamp" that shows this. It's caption says,
"The 'swamp' holds the community of generations, a phrase that recognizes the individuality and the links within all humanity from beginning to end. Each person, real as each has been, ends faceless, unacknowledged, a shadow within that layer upon layer of shadows. That is the swamp, the humus of history. Yet no achievement, no civilization, no victory or dream has ever been realized without them."
Another thought: How unfair to hold the carrot of "seeing dead loved ones" ie. Dead marriage mates...when the bible clearly states that the dead will not be allowed to marry. How many widows or widowers are dreaming of the day when they see their mate again? Not gonna happen ppl. Bastards to pry on ppls love as well as fears.
The new system is ONE belief, what other ones might you have to get over, perhaps even post-JW beliefs if you keep going the belief route? Lets put things in perspective, when it comes to beliefs it's about your own mind. There are of course reasonable, conditional assumptions one might make as an operational necessity in order to function in the world, so I'm not talking about those. But if your mind is such that it keeps cranking out new things to believe in, isn't it possible that you will be disappointed in the new beliefs? I'm not trying to scare anyone, but rather save people unnecessary trouble. I'm just saying you might want to go a little deeper, what is this tendancy to believe things? I mean not as a reasonable guide to moving through the world based on observation, but when it's just like oh okay, this is the way reality is because I got the idea somewhere. Actually I don't think beliefs are a problem, but if you don't know it's a belief then it starts getting awry. Atleast start by acknowledging that this is just a belief I hold, otherwise the door is open for self deception - it's just a different set of blinders.