Hard to get over: No New System

by confusedjw 101 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Special K
    Special K

    I must say that this too was one of the hardest things to wrap my mind around.

    When I came to the realization that it wasn't true I fought bouts of denial and felt like I was a balloon that had been pierced with a knife. POOF!.. There was this huge void of belief system.. empty in there.

    After all, it is the core teaching of the J.W.'s and they base everything on that belief.

    It is the goal, the golden carrot, the reason and the cause for all other rules.

    Very hard to gradually get beyond this one... but I did,.. and I feel that you will too.

    It's interesting to read about other religions and their core belief systems around such things. It helps to know there are many other religions that believe sincerely in a particular afterlife or lack there of.

    Special K

  • Markfromcali

    Consider this: the 'new system' is not a system at all, neither is it old or new.

    That one is just kind of something to keep in the back of your mind if you're so inclined, but here's something a little more down to earth. Would you really want to live forever in this human existence? I mean sure, it may be nice to live longer than the typical human lifespan, but just in principle this human thing is limited in possibilities, and forever is... FOREVER! One could only hope it changes, (which means human life as we know it ends at some point and something else comes up) otherwise it is a fate equal to death just by virtue of how stagnant it would get.

    And here's where I'll contradict myself but not really, there are infinite possibilities in your regular, everyday life too. This is the point about really living. Yes the daily grind and the like does get old, but things are only as good as how much life you infuse into it in a sense, which just means how well you live, experiencing fully. Actually, this is the same as death in every moment - which happens anyway even if we don't see it. Feeling bad about not living forever in a paradise earth is just that belief still being stuck in the mind, which of course only serves to limit the quality of life. Dying over and over means there is always a new experience, because on the other side of the coin you are being born over and over. So I would say it's not that you'd want to get over it so much as the belief needs to die. This has nothing to do with holding some other belief, but just opening yourself up to the possibilities of life.

  • iiz2cool

    Gopher: That's a great way to look at things. Very positive.

    I view it as a mathematical miracle that I'm even here. Of all the possible combinations of sperm and egg, I was created.

    I wasn't here before 1960. I probably won't be here after 2060.

    But in between, I will embrace each day as a miracle.

    And if the miracle of life includes some sort of continuation in another form or another place, I will embrace that miracle too.

    As a JW, the witnesses I knew seemed to be working overtime to undermine the little self esteem I had, so I always assumed I would be bird food at armaggedon? anyway. Either that or I would spend eternity in an oppressed state. Now I just live day to day, and it's kind of nice that I don't have to think about any other systems, new or otherwise.


  • frankiespeakin

    I think the teaching of the WT about living forever on earth actually causes more pain in living. Before I became a JW(18 years old) I never spent much time worrying about growing old and dying,, but the hope of living forever caused me to become more fearful of death but cause I no longer accepted it as a natural part of life. The lack of acceptance created more pain.

    If we could just accept the reality about life,, that everything dies,, animals, plants, humans. accept that it is a fact of life,,but when we hold onto an impossible dream of living forever we increase our pain thru trying(hoping) to live forever. I think the best thing a person can do is to accept what is true about life. Face reality.

    For me it has been hard after 29 years of indoctrination to overcome the fear implanted in me by the WT about the natural process of life,, which includes dying. Gradually though acceptance I have found a measure of peace,, I think that when my time is up I won't go kicking and screaming which only increases pain and suffering,,instead hopefully I will do it like my grandfather did,, he said to me the day before he died:"It's my time to go,,I lived 84 years that enough, everybody got to die." Death and dying only become more painful when you can't accept it,,when you accept it I think you take away the pain.

  • acsot
    I think the teaching of the WT about living forever on earth actually causes more pain in living. Before I became a JW(18 years old) I never spent much time worrying about growing old and dying,, but the hope of living forever caused me to become more fearful of death but cause I no longer accepted it as a natural part of life. The lack of acceptance created more pain.

    frankiespeakin: That is exactly how I felt! But I'm still trying to get over the notion that the new system ain't ever going to get here. It's a bummer.

  • Jez

    I too think about this alot.

    Interestingly: My husband (nonJW) is NOT afraid of death, never thinks about it, thinks it weird to discuss it so much. I have found that the more worldly nonreligious ppl that I talk to, they aren't afraid. Fear is put in us through religion.

    I have come to the conclusion that I do not want to live forever. Tomorrow would never come, I would not do it because I could do it tomorrow, or tomorrow or tomorrow. Time would cease to exist as there would be no need to keep track of things. Children 'growing up' would lose it's special charm and intrigue, in fact all youthfulness and the beauty of it, the beauty of middle age and it's rewards, the older years and it's woes and blessings. Rites of passages would be meaningless. I think that we need bad to have good. Comparing is what gives us either. Without bad, how can we know what is good? Without injustice, how can we know justice? The universe is a plethora of opposites. Can't have one without the other.

    Living forever would take the joy out of LIVING for me. If I live on, I live on...if I just die, I just die. THERE is nothing I can do NOW to change that. What happens, happens. SO LIVE, ENJOY, DO IT.

  • garybuss

    Interesting! I took the down side of the concept. I accepted that god was going to murder all the bad people and even when I was a Witness I assumed I had not done enough volunteer work for his business corporation and he would murder me at Armageddon. My big disappointment was that I would not be murdered by god at a young age, and I would have to live into old age.

    I never planned to live in the new world, but I never expected to live to be old either. I was one in the 1950's who was told I would never go to high school before Armageddon came. I was told I would certainly never get married and have children in this old system. I turned 60 this year and I have 4 adult sons and one grandson.

    It certainly is a shock to find out everything I had learned at home, in school, and at church was a lie. Fortunately I started to live like it was all a lie before I proved it.

  • confusedjw

    Jez said:

    "I have come to the conclusion that I do not want to live forever."

    I sure haven't come to that yet. This is it for me. Teaching one grand kid after another to fish, build, learn, think, walk the dog, clean the gutter, trim the trees, and on and on.

    I just don't want it to end and I don't want to miss out on seeing my children raise their children.

    Perhaps someday this will wear off.

  • DanTheMan

    Living forever in paradise on earth was something that I never really could envision clearly. It raised too many "just what exactly are we going to there? After a billion jillion years go by, won't things start to get a little stale?" questions. I sometimes felt kind of jealous of JW's who were always talking about the New System and Paradise like it was such a concrete reality in their mind. I could never get there.

    I just wanted a ticket out of suffering and death, the unavoidable consequences of being a carbon-based life form on planet earth. What my attitude should be towards these things is under constant revision, though I'm finding that a stoical attitude seems to be the best thing for my mental health. Being a bleeding heart can make you crazy.

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    It is one thing to have a belief system of a future hope but where the WT has failed is not helping us as humans understand and accept our mortality. Growing up my family all believed that we would never experience death. Now as I have gotten older and realized it was all a dream have to accept the reality that one day my time will be up. We have to embrace our death and accept it as part of life than move on, otherwise you will be dying every day of your life.


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