An Apology Regarding "The Voice"...

by AGuest 109 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • czarofmischief
    P.S. Czar... I love you, too, man!!!

    Why does that make me so happy? Weird, but it does. Illogical... but it makes me happy. WTF?

    If Satan had little satans did someone have to die as a ransom for the sins their father/satan made as well so they could be reconciled to God?

    Satan's sins, according to some of the "deeper" reasonings on the subject, exist outside of time. Repentance is uniquely human, because humans exist inside the universe and therefore exist at different "times". Therefore, a human can at one time be evil, and at another time repent and become good. But Satan's sin, pride, occurred even before the Human creation - therefore is a fundamental aspect of his personality and has nothing to do with TIME. However it works "up there" according to the theology, he cannot repent because he has no TIME to do it in. Or, from another perspective, if he were going to repent, it would have seemed to us that he had never sinned. That's what C.S. Lewis had to say on the subject (thanks, bebu, BTW for sending me those books. Fascinating.) Apparently, also, angels do not reproduce like we do, although there are hints that they engage in a form of intimacy akin to our sexual relations. So your question is meaningless in terms of the mythology.

    Again, this is just the mythology I have read and I personally do not endorse these beliefs at all with any weight - although in private musings I have wondered exactly what is going on. Of course, haven't we all?

    So, shelby, has God said anything about me joining the Air Force?

    i am curious if there is anyone else on this board who hears messages the way you do. can anyone else here corroborate first hand the things you say?

    I have posted at length about my experiences. I don't like to talk about them. Look up the God does exist thread...


  • Valis

    Shelby...I guess the easy way out would be to claim I was being WTBTS like instead of recognizing that Socrates was one of the first great humanists. Meaning he valued logic and rational thought over the concept of a god, angels, devils, other gods, etc..But like it has been said before..ya just can't argue with crazy..


    District Overbeer

  • AGuest

    for if I took in the others, although "adopted"... did I not, by doing so, indicate to THEM that they were as good as and precious to me AS my one biological child? What kind of LOVE would justify my showing a difference? How could I do that to a child? To me, that would most cruel and I should have simply let that child be... left him so that perhaps someone more loving than I... someone's whose heart is NOT limited by "blood"... might have him.

    But it seems to me that you're suggesting that not only does earthling man's love have such boundaries... but perhaps it SHOULD. I must vehemently disagree, however, for if I were to have one biological child... or ten... and adopt one biological child... or ten... they should ALL, for all intents and purposes... be able to consider themselves my children. My obligations to them... and my love... should not be "ranked."

    And if I had to sacrifice that one biological child... for the good of all of the adopted children... and such child went WILLINGLY... that would only make me PROUDER... make me KNOW... that THAT one... TRULY was my biological child. For I don't know if the others would have enough love for ME... and their adopted siblings... to do the same. But if my biological child... being in MY image... were to do so... to the extent of proving himself BETTER than the adopted children... my pain... although GREAT... would be covered only by my LOVE for that one... for doing so. And so I would have NO problem naming him FIRST heir over my other [adopted] children... NOT because of my blood tie (because a biological child can be just as rebellious and as bad a nightmare as any adopted child can be)... but becasue he proved himself WORTHY of. How? By doing what I would have done: given MY life... on behalf of those I love.

    I bid you peace, dear Mulan.

    YOUR servant... and a slave of Christ,


  • AGuest

    Peace to you!

    You totally missed my point

    Perhaps, but if so it was not due to your writing: you write just fine!. So, let's try again, shall we?

    My point was the "way" animals were sacrificed "was" (sic) as I mentioned.

    Yes, I got that. And my point was that my Lord was not sacrificed in the "way" animals were... for a reason. Maybe it was me who wasn't very clear...

    If Jesus were to have been sacrificed the way Jehovah had the animals sacrificed it would have been as I described it; his throat slit and then his body burned on the altar by his disciples, i.e. his followers.

    Yes. IF...

    This way although gruesome, it would have been far better than the treatment and way of death he got.

    YES!!! It would have been FAR more merciful!! Yes??! That was the point, dear Tor... that my Lord wasn't even afforded the mercy shown mere beasts... by his fellow humans and "spiritual" brothers (or so they would have labeled themselves). THAT's... the point!

    The proper way to do it had we lived back then was for you and I, if we were James and John, was to do the deed as I described; slit his throat and burn his body on the altar as a sacrifice for our sins. I dont believe I could have done that, could you???

    Of COURSE not! And that is the very reason WHY the disciples weren't called TO do it. It was done... from start to finish (meaning, including his trumped up trial)... by those who WOULD commit an unmerciful act, even on a fellow human being... even on the Son of God.

    God had him tortured and maimed by people who didnt even believe in him,

    NO! God... did NOT have him tortured and maimed! God... let him be handed OVER to a tortuous and maimful people in that He didn't interfere. God knew what was in the heart of mankind, just as Socrates knew what was in the heart of those who sentenced/executed him. They could AT ANY TIME... have said, "Uh-uh, no, not me... I ain't gonna have NO parts in this... it's wrong... totally wrong... evil." But did they? Nope. They actually got some kind of sick joy out of it... vowing that they even wanted the RESPONSIBILITY for it to come upon their own children. (Shaking head...)

    does Gods way seem more reasonable?

    To let a blood thirsty group of hypocrites commit such a heinous and unmerciful act against His one Son... for the sake of His others... and all... including those who committed the act? I have to say, dear Toreador... if that's what it TOOK... then yes... the "way"... was reasonable.

    Yet this is what God exacted from him.

    Okay, here is where I must expound to you the way of the Truth "more accurately:" the price was not exacted by God - it was exacted... by Death! Death... was/is the one who is never satisfied! Adam made a deal... on behalf of ALL of his offspring... and sold HIS soul... and theirs... TO Death. God... out of LOVE.. paid the ONLY "price" Death would accept: His only-begotten Son. GOD... did not hold mankind ransom; DEATH did. And God.. PAID the ransom... with the sacrifice of His Son. And Death THOUGHT he would have that Son... forever. But God did NOT leave him to Death... but gave him the "keys" to the REALM of Death... so that it could not hold him. Thus, although Death, through his high priest, the one called Satan and Devil, thought he'd cheated God, GOD... by means of HIS High Priest, my Lord and Master, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... cheated Death! So that by means of him, not only does Death not have a hold on THAT One... but not on any who BELONG to that One.

    Please do not let your mind and heart be misled by the FALSE propoganda of "religion"... particularly the WTBTS. They haven't a CLUE as to what took place regarding this matter, before the founding of the world... or after.

    I find it hard to reconcile a God who would do such a thing.

    Well, of course, if your mind and heart are clearly convinced that that is what took place. And that is the vocation of the Adversary: to sent false prophets and false christs into the earth... to TEACH you such melarkey... so as to mislead, if possible... EVEN THE CHOSEN ONES.

    This is the same God who wanted the killing and sacrificing of millions of animals up to that point as well to atone for the original sin they did not commit.

    The wage... or price... of sin... is death. God... MERCIFULLY... allowed animals to be substituted for human life in that regard. The animals, who also serve JAH... are even higher than us in this regard because, like my Lord... they go silently... and most often... willingly. Why? Because unlike US... but like my LORD... THEY know that this life is not all there is. THEIR minds are not simply on the things of the earth. God saves man... AND beast.

    If Satan had little satans did someone have to die as a ransom for the sins their father/satan made as well so they could be reconciled to God?

    Satan has "little" satans, for the children of the Devil are manifest in he that hates his brother. Satan's blood, however, cannot atone for the sins of his children, as HIS blood... has no value. His "children" then, need only turn to the One whose blood CAN atone for their sins... and be reconciled. It's not hard... and it's not rocket science. It's merely a matter of turning away from what is bad... hatred for one's brother and neighbor... to good... LOVE for one's brother and neighbor... and enemy.

    The greatest of peace go you, dear Tor.

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,


  • AGuest
    (dc may indeed be wonderful, but sometimes he should choose his responses with a bit more care.

    As should we all... at some time or another, dear Nowisee, wouldn't you agree? (The greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!)

    whenever i see him i remember being cut to the core by his remarks to me, when i was a very new poster, and new to the computer

    Then you are owed an apology...

    . ironically it all dealt with you.

    I can't read the thread, but I can assure you that whatever it says causes me to hold no grudge or animosity. MANY people here... and in the world... say things... out of anger, pain... ignorance. I know I have. I do not want all of the things I've ever said or done to be held against me, dear 'Now. In fact, hopefully NONE of them will be. But I don't see how I can ask for such a thing if I'm unwilling to grant it myself.

    anyway, whenever i see you i read your comments with interest. i am curious if there is anyone else on this board who hears messages the way you do.

    Well, MOST of them have been run off by some of the "attitude" they received when they came here. But, they're out there, absolutely! However, just because one has faith so as to hear... not all are willing to openly confess it. Think... Jonah. And most often... it's because of their fear: fear of the "Pharisees" (those self-appointed "leaders" who do NOT have holy spirit... but claim some kind of "authority" in order to "lead" people... based on their own self-perceived "righteousness"... or "intelligence"... some of whom even exist here, for although they do despise my Lord, they always seem to be lurking somewhere just outside his vicinity so that you can find them in almost every "place" that even smacks of "religion" or things related...) Fear of seeming insane... fear of being ridiculed... fear of becoming unpopular... fear of becoming unloved. However, that is their "load" to carry... their's and our Lord's. I love them all still... in spite of their silence.

    can anyone else here corroborate first hand the things you say?

    ?? Again, the greatest of love and peace to you, too, dear 'Now... Your servant and a slave of Christ, SJ

  • AGuest

    And may the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, whose name is JAH... of Armies... and the peace of His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... be upon you... you and your entire household... if you so wish it.

    I am your servant,


  • AGuest

    you have made my heart... rejoice! PEACE to you!

    As for the Air Force... there is no "law" against military service of any kind. There is a TRUTH, however, that he who lives by the sword, will die by the sword. So, so long as you go in with your eyes wide open... knowing that if you choose from among certain vocations your chance of dying as a result is great... go in peace! Just remember to tell your family that it was YOUR choice... God didn't MAKE you... and so, if you should meet with some demise... GOD... is not to be blamed.

    As before, the greatest of love and peace to you... and may the underserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, whose name is JAH, of Armies, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who brought Israel up out of slavery several times before and will do it again by means of His Son... and may the peace OF that Son, my Lord and His Christ, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... be with you... go with you, should you make that choice... and be with you to comfort you... if you so wish it.

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,


  • AGuest

    you don't "know" Socrates as well as you think. You might want to revisit what is written about him sometime in the near future. OR... alternatively... you could just do what I did: ask. Either way, try one of those. THEN... let's talk.

    YOUR servant... and a slave of Christ,


  • ballistic

    Shelb, just curious.... after all these years, do you not have any other platform from which to speak. I mean, I don't mind you being here, but surely your message is not targeted purely at ex-jws? Or is it? Surely you realise the large percentage of people here that have either become athiest, or have found some other road to walk along?

  • Brummie
    An Apology Regarding "The Voice"...

    Thanks for the apology, lets forget about it now shall we.

    Not to worry


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