Abortion...

by Lostreality 215 Replies latest jw friends

  • Yizuman
    Yizuman
    Hi Yiz! I believe I already have -indirectly when I wrote in reply to you response to Franklin's story. I will repeat it just in case you missed it.
    Because someone's views have changed over the years does not make what decisions that were discussed in the past any less signifiant in the matter of choice, he/she, they, still had the option of choice when they wanted to exercise it. Cassi
    Do you know how many people in prison have become born again christians? Just about all of them say.. "I found God.. therefore forgive me for my sins, release me", and this somehow changes the past!?!?! Does that erase what they did to begin with Yiz? I honestly do not care that she 'found God' in her own words, it does not change that both God and I can exercise our 'right to choose'. If as I said to Genericman if what you are saying is based on religion-- which it seeems her stance is, then what does it mean to you that God killed babies (a fetus) before abortion was legal? That it is his choice and his alone? I find it hard to believe that a benevolent god can judge those who 'choose' as he did, as harshly as those like yourself who judge those who wish to choose-- as a benevolent God did.

    First, I was talking about a different person, Norma is not Franklin, I wanted a perspective on Norma alone rather just just carry Franklin's story in the same heap as Norma. Seconly, I wanted your input on Norma's story and I wanted to know what you thought of it, be a critic if you want, but at least on the perspective of it. Now about prisoners who convert to Christianity, true, some do that to try to weasle their way out of prison rather than taking the punishment doled out to them on the day they got sentenced in court. But some do actually convert to Christianity on the basis that some do feel actual remorse for what they had done. Take the Son of Sam case, this man is a genuine convert to Christianity and guess what? He doesn't want to be released from prison, even when a parole board come out for his parole, he wrote a letter to the board requesting that he'd be denied for parole, he also stated that he doesn't want his freedom. He felt that he truely deserves to remain in prison for the rest of his life for what he had done. But on the other hand, he has his true freedom, freedom from sin and death (eternal seperation from God), because he gave his life to Jesus Christ, who alone died for our sins so that we can truly be free. I'm talking about true spritual freedom, a kind of freedom that not even prison bars can hold it down. There's a difference between physical freedom and spiritual freedom. Here's his prison blog... http://www.forgivenforlife.com/ Karla Faye Tucker, the woman who was executed in Feburary 3rd, 1998, a former prositute and drug abuser, who axe murdered two of her victims. The prison minstry there at death row showed her Jesus' love and mercy and she accepted Him. Despite of the fact that after years on death row, she knew that she may very well be executed for her crimes. She accepted it, was ready to die, but felt that she may be needed here while on earth to help others, because her heart was pouring out for other fellow prisoners on death row. So she asked for clemency so she can continue her work, they said no. Even then Gov. Bush who later became President told her no. So she resigned to the fact that God was really calling her home. Bush cried (if you seen his announcement live on the news the day he visited death row to break the news to her personally) knowing she'll be executed, but at the same time he had to make a stand against crime and she had to be no exception, which was of course understandable under these circumstances. She did the crime and she had to pay for it. But at the end, she's free and she's home with the Lord. Oh by the way, she married the prison minister who won her heart to Jesus. The day she died, she sang "Amazing Grace" as poison was injected into her veins. The bottom line is, the answer to your question, does it change the past? No, it does not. They did the crime and they have to pay for it, even the law of God demands it (in the flesh while on earth), but at the same time, those that accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior becomes free in the spirit, so even while the body is put to death for the crime(s) they have committed, the spirit is set free to return home to the Lord. So there's a seperation of facts between physical and spiritual states. Of course, if man or woman outright rejects Jesus as the only source and means of salvation, then of course, that's the judgement between Jesus and man (or woman that is). Yiz

  • Yizuman
    Yizuman

    Abaddon, I too am delight that anyone, man or woman, can have the right and freedom to choose. But what I am always afraid for anyone that someone chooses unwisely that he or she may (or may not) regret. I care and if that bothers you, then I'm sorry it does. This is who I am. I care for everyone and I choose no ill for anyone. I'd much rather that nothing bad happens to anyone and peace prevails for all, w/o consequences. But unfortunantly, that's not life. I don't claim to be a know it all and I may have my facts wrong. Even while I may not know all of the answers, I do try hard. Maybe I'm not trying hard enough or maybe I am trying too hard, I don't know. I'm human, with flaws and prone to mistakes just like everyone else, even while I am deaf with some degree of education, but my life is still full of learning and will always remain so. I hope I am making sense since it's 6 AM with 2 days off on my schedule while staying up all night messing around in the internet just for the heck of it. Yiz

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Thanks for your reply Yiz, I appreciate it and you've clarified how you think.

  • Mary
    Mary
    Yizuman said: Because to say "It's better the baby be dead than me" is selfishly wrong. I cannot fathom how heartless a human being that could be so cruel to a baby, who would not give a helpless little infant a chance at life.

    I think it's easy to make a statement like that when you're a man, as you'll never have to worry about getting pregnant. When a woman is raped, it's already emotionally devastating enough for her. If she becomes pregnant, and is forced to carry this reminder of her attacker each and every day for nine months, the emotional devastation could become a thousand times worse. In my opinion, this is something that each woman should be able to decide on her own---it's no one else's damn business. If a woman feels that she should have the baby---then that's great; it's her decision and her's alone. However, not everyone is the same and some women could feel that they could not possibly go through such a horrific ordeal as carrying a baby that's the product of a rape for nine months, give birth and then either raise it, or give it up for adoption. If she feels she can't do this, then she should be allowed to have an abortion if she wants to. Perhaps anti-abortionists should feed, clothe, and provided financially and emotionally for all the children out there who are beaten, abused and left to rot by parents who should never have been allowed to have kids in the first place instead of trying to force their viewpoints, often with violence, on the rest of the population.

  • Obviously Secret
    Obviously Secret

    I could never say that about a baby... I always cringe when I really think about abortion. :sigh: I don't even know what to feel about the subject anymore.

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    Guess what my opinion is!

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    Interesting how some of you want to save the unborn 12 week foetus (someone elses one) ... but don't care blowing up alived people, when it comes to protect your a$$es !

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Obviously: post-cult disoriontation! You were bought up with 'life is sacred from conception, we know this as the Mosaic Law was against abortion'. You are now in a world where many secular people don't see early term abortions as a moral issue as you're dealing with under an ounce of tissue in anycase. You don't know, as you say, what to think anymore.

    You know those fairy stories like tom thumb, with the little men so high who are just like big human. Fetuses are simply not the same, when they are tiny (below 12-16 weeks is really, really tiny) there isn't enough of what really makes us human beings (brains) present to make them human.

    Oh, and there is absolutely no law against abortion anywhere in the Bible. As abortion was known in the ancient world (just like masturbation was), the lack of a specific prohibition should be a penny for your thoughts.

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim
    Interesting how some of you want to save the unborn 12 week foetus (someone elses one) ... but don't care blowing up alived people, when it comes to protect your a$$es !

    Interesting how some of you are concerned about the death of terrorists but not in protecting the unborn innocents, especially when it comes to personal convenience. Protests about the war fall on deaf ears when you don't mind babies being murdered because they are inconvenient.

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    Well what about 11 000 Civilians ? ummmmmmmmm I wonder ?

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