Abortion...

by Lostreality 215 Replies latest jw friends

  • bebu
    bebu
    But I still feel it should be pro-choice because seriously, there's gonna be hundreds of babies in dumpsters with ruined lives

    This I also disagree with. If abortion were outlawed we would be back in the Sixties, fifties and before, using bicycle spokes and hangers. I don't recall many news events before abortion was legal saying there were thousands of babies found in dumpsters.

    Cass, I agree with you that there weren't hundreds of babies in dumpsters back in the 60s; this dumpster thing is a more recent trend. ...I suppose I have a knee-jerk reaction to people claiming that 'we will return to the days of hangers' if RvW is overturned, as part of any argument. That statement should be retired IMO.

    g'night...

    bebu

  • talesin
    talesin

    Yes, Cassi!

    My claws come out on certain things, too.

    And I hope you noted that I agree with where you're coming from. Right on!

    t

  • Cassiline
    Cassiline

    Blah!! Still having trouble posting everying I wrote

    Yiz

    You are aware that pregancy can kill correct? Any number of things. From high blood pressure to a placenta that has become detached. Do you put yourself in harms for 9 months straight to assure others can live?

    9 months Yiz, not a 5 hour plane trip or walking across the street. Will you do you?

    Cassi

  • Cassiline
    Cassiline
    Cass, I agree with you that there weren't hundreds of babies in dumpsters back in the 60s; this dumpster thing is a more recent trend. ...I suppose I have a knee-jerk reaction to people claiming that 'we will return to the days of hangers' if RvW is overturned, as part of any argument. That statement should be retired IMO

    Sorry Bebu first thing that came to mind! Have a good night and I agree!

    (( Tal ))

    Yes, I saw that!!

    Cassi

  • talesin
    talesin

    {{{Cassi}}}

  • Prefect
    Prefect

    I do not agree with abortion. I remembered this from years ago and looked it up.

    It is from the 1980 Awake May 22nd Page16.

    *** g80 5/22 16 Diary of an Unborn Child ***
    Diary of an Unborn Child
    OCTOBER 5:
    Today my life began. My parents do not know it yet, but it is I already. And I am to be a girl. I shall have blond hair and blue eyes. Just about everything is settled though, even the fact that I shall love flowers.
    OCTOBER 19:
    Some say that I am not a real person yet, that only my mother exists. But I am a real person, just as a small crumb of bread is yet truly bread. My mother is. And I am.
    OCTOBER 23:
    My mouth is just beginning to open now. Just think, in a year or so I shall be laughing and later talking. I know what my first word will be: MAMA.
    OCTOBER 25:
    My heart began to beat today all by itself. From now on it shall gently beat for the rest of my life without ever stopping to rest! And after many years it will tire. It will stop, and then I shall die.
    NOVEMBER 2:
    I am growing a bit every day. My arms and legs are beginning to take shape. But I have to wait a long time yet before those little legs will raise me to my mother's arms, before these little arms will be able to gather flowers and embrace my father.
    NOVEMBER 12:
    Tiny fingers are beginning to form on my hands. Funny how small they are! I'll be able to stroke my mother's hair with them.
    NOVEMBER 20:
    It wasn't until today that the doctor told mom that I am living here under her heart. Oh, how happy she must be! Are you happy, mom?
    NOVEMBER 25:
    My mom and dad are probably thinking about a name for me. But they don't even know that I am a little girl. I want to be called Kathy. I am getting so big already.
    DECEMBER 10:
    My hair is growing. It is smooth and bright and shiny. I wonder what kind of hair mom has?
    DECEMBER 13:
    I am just about able to see. It is dark around me. When mom brings me into the world it will be full of sunshine and flowers. But what I want more than anything is to see my mom. How do you look, mom?
    DECEMBER 24:
    I wonder if mom hears the whispering of my heart? Some children come into the world a little sick. But my heart is strong and healthy. It beats so evenly: tup-tup, tup-tup. You'll have a healthy little daughter, mom!
    DECEMBER 28:
    Today my mother killed me.
    -Anonymous

  • Simon
    Simon

    I don't agree with people who use Abortion as a dumb, lazy and abhorant form of "birth control" or late-term abortions (esp for trivial reasons).

    However, you have to respect people's right to make their own choices and these can often be difficult ones with untreatable serious deformities or rape.

  • Simon
    Simon

    The violinist argument is just nonsense. One could equally argue that abortion is a good idea because "the next Hitler" was prevented from being born. Wouldn't aborting him have been a *good thing*? ... See what a poor argument it is?

  • Atilla
    Atilla

    People like Bush would make all forms of abortion illegal today if they could. With that being said, I wonder what would happen if one of the Bush's daughters was raped and became pregnant as a result? Well, I guess there are always exceptions, when you have money and power....fly your kid out of the country and cover everything up.

  • SwampThing
    SwampThing

    Disclaimer: I apologize to all those who are from countries other than America as my response to this post is based on how things work here. I can?t comment on what happens anywhere other than America as this is where I live.

    Reply:

    This has always been a fascinating topic for me. Both the government and the special interest groups have so successfully confused and clouded the issue that without even thinking about it, people now speak in terms of "pro-choice" or "pro-life," effectively missing the real issue at hand. The same strategy was used with the now-famous "separation of church and state" argument, a phrase which I defy anyone to find in the Constitution for the United States of America.

    Before one can successfully argue whether or not a woman can contract with her physician to perform an abortion, two questions need to be investigated first:

    1) At what point does the woman?s ?right to choose? come into play? and,

    2) Does the government (re: society or ?The People?) have the authority to tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her body?

    Consider this; We already tell women what they can or cannot do with their bodies, i.e., they can?t choose to take drugs, they can?t sell their bodies for sexual pleasure, they can?t drink before they are 18, and the list does on and on. Why do these things never come up in the "right to choose" argument? I would ask the hypothetical question "did the woman have the right before the government in question was formed?" If so, then it is an inalienable right, a right which cannot be taken away from her by man (re: government) because it was not given to her by man.

    Secondly, I say that she indeed has the right to decide what she wants to do with her body as it is completely and only her?s, and this includes taking drugs or becoming a prostitute. That being said, the ?right? comes into play at the time she is to take a decision whether or not to engage in the activity which would produce a child. The pregnancy is but the consequence of her decision to engage in sexual activity, not something which happened without her prior knowledge or consent. (I will address rape, insist, mother?s health in a moment, so don?t get too upset with me right now.)

    The People, in the form of the government, got involved in the argument when the question came up with regard to who was paying for the abortion. In America, tax payers have a right to say where their tax dollars are being spent. If those dollars are being spent on abortions for indigent woman, or women who fall into some government-created category or group, then the tax payers, by way of their representatives in Washington, do indeed have a say in whether or not government should fund abortions.

    As with anything in life, there is no one facet to the question. I can argue cogently on both sides of the issue whether or not a woman has the right to choose to about killing or keeping her fetus. It is not a black and white issue. If a woman has a tumor which would certainly kill her if she did not choose to have it removed, then she absolutely has the right to choose to have a fetus removed from her body if she and her doctor are convinced that her life with be endangered were she to carry to term. For the ?pro-lifers,? how do you tell a 13 year old that just because her uncle decided to rape her, she must now carry a child to term and give birth? Or, if a mentally incompetent woman who cannot take an informed decision, nor care for herself, should she be expected to carry the child and give birth if she is taken advantage of? And sadly, as much as we do not like it, there are women who engage in unprotected sex and later use government-funded abortions as a form of birth control.

    The ?pro-life v. pro-choice? issue arose when the government got involved in the equation by writing law which took tax dollars and paid for abortions with them. As soon as it did, The People suddenly had a voice in the argument. The abortion issue is as convoluted as an issue can be. Remove the government from the equation and you put the decision back in the hands of the woman, who we all hope will seek her doctor?s advice, as well as figuring into the mix the thoughts of the father, and that she will take the best ?informed? decision possible for her life. If her decision is based on anything other than what is morally best for all involved, then the consequences of her decision are between her and the one who created us.

    Thank you for allowing me the time to share my thoughts.

    Regards,

    Swamp Thing

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