Torture to find WMD? (page 8)

SixofNine

Frankly, if you do not understand what moral clarity means, you very likely lack it. No bother, most people do.

I suspect you and Yeru confuse simpletonism and acting tough with "moral clarity". Just because someone will not change their mind, no matter how stupid their position, no matter how bad their decisions prove to be, does not mean that person has "moral clarity". And just because someone labels their actions with words that pertain to morality, does not mean that person actually is moral.

In any case, no one asked you or Yeru to define moral clarity. The request was for a description and example of Bush's moral clarity.

blacksheep

I suspect you and Yeru confuse simpletonism and acting tough with "moral clarity". Just because someone will not change their mind, no matter how stupid their position, no matter how bad their decisions prove to be, does not mean that person has "moral clarity". And just because someone labels their actions with words that pertain to morality, does not mean that person actually is moral.

Cannot speak for Yeru, but people who have been in positions of power UNDERSTAND what "moral clarity" means. You have the courage to do do things that are right, even though you are besieged with doubters, detractors, hand-wringers, flighty fearful people, at every turn.

In any case, no one asked you or Yeru to define moral clarity. The request was for a description and example of Bush's moral clarity.

So I went above and beyond to clarify what moral clarity is NOT. People who have a natural sense of right versus wrong often just take it for granted that everyone else has that sense. Not everyone does. Sorta like the reason I left the JW's. They were WRONG. In my heart/soul I knew they were wrong. No vacillating, no, "Well, I did this at the time, and I should be considered a hero, but now I know I was really a war criminal and hate what I did."

Liberals cannot STAND the fact that Kerry is such a lost soul. Such a vacillating person with no moral compass.

shamus

Do you think those Iraqi's were tortured to find WMD

They alredy have. If you doubt it, look up torture in the dictionary and compare what they did to the prisoners. Of course, everyone is at arm's length; as any decent 21st century government is.

Yerusalyim

Tales,

I just read this,

As the ex-wife (in the married, but not 'churched' sense) of one of the members of your (US) elite squadrons, I can VERIFY that some soldiers are ORDERED to commit atrocities.

I don't recall ever NOT saying this. My contention is that A) Soldiers KNOW better, and know they do not have to follow an illegal order, and B) it's not common, not in the circles I've run in with Special Forces or the Infantry.

So, define "attrocities" for me....in the sense that you mean it.

Yerusalyim

Tales,

Please don't read this to say I don't think these things happened. I know stuff like this DOES happen, but it's not a regular thing...those involved should be punished. If this was sanctioned by the Brigade Commander, he should go to jail...etc etc etc

SixofNine

Cannot speak for Yeru, but people who have been in positions of power UNDERSTAND what "moral clarity" means. You have the courage to do do things that are right, even though you are besieged with doubters, detractors, hand-wringers, flighty fearful people, at every turn.

lol. Ok, uh.. yeah. That sure describes people who've been in positions of power alright.

blacksheep

lol. Ok, uh.. yeah. That sure describes people who've been in positions of power alright.

Actually, you are right. That describes *effective* leaders who are in positions of power. It's doesn't describe everyone.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

Well, I guess Yeru does not have an answer or he for some reason is not answering my question. So I will answer it myself.

The phrase "moral clarity" is a religious right phrase. What it means is: The President is a born again Christian who in his personal deliberations with his conscience gives Christ the top place in his life. This produces a moral clarity which positively influences all his decisions both personal and professional.

Translation: Whatever the man does is from God and therefore since it is from God the man cannot make a mistake. Therefore no mistakes in his policy need to be acknowledged because none were made.

Jefferson, Madison, Franklin and Washington are turning over in their graves!

Sabrina

SixofNine

The phrase "moral clarity" is a religious right phrase. What it means is: The President is a born again Christian who in his personal deliberations with his conscience gives Christ the top place in his life.

Oh, you mean "Christlike", like how he's turning the other cheek to Osama bin Laden?

The most important thing is for us to find osama bin laden. It's our #1 priority & we will not rest until we find him".....George W. Bush
Sep. 13, 2001

"I don't know where osama is, I really don't care, It's not that important. It's not our priority".....George W. Bush
March 13, 2002

blacksheep

The phrase "moral clarity" is a religious right phrase. What it means is: The President is a born again Christian who in his personal deliberations with his conscience gives Christ the top place in his life. This produces a moral clarity which positively influences all his decisions both personal and professional.

Here's a suggestion: get a dictionary. Then you'll find that "moral clarity" has nothing to do with religiousity. You don't seem to understand that ETHICAL, MORAL behavior doesn't have to be wrapped up in some "born again" Christianity.

Translation: Whatever the man does is from God and therefore since it is from God the man cannot make a mistake. Therefore no mistakes in his policy need to be acknowledged because none were made.

You are make such a comical illogical leap. You seem to be suggesting that people cannot determine "right from wrong" outside of the confines of "God's guiding me." Very telling.

Jefferson, Madison, Franklin and Washington are turning over in their graves!

How ironic. Given that all of them expressed that our nation was "under God," your point is utterly lost.

Torture to find WMD?

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