by Greenpalmtreestillmine 91 Replies latest social current
What is so surprising to me is how Kerry's admission of committing war atrocities is so downplayed by people. Suppose Bush had said such a thing? The left media would be all over it. Now we have people who have not even heard of it?
Here's a link. For the record, Kerry's responses to the questions (in his ever waffling personality) is utterly outrageous.
I thought this was a thread to discuss the torture issue currently raging ? not a Bush vs. Kerry debate ...
Since when is possible violation of Geneva convention and (factual violation of) human decency a Republican vs. Democrat issue? get a grip people.
And here's another link for you...hope that provides the documentation you need to the "allegations" against Kerry.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/25/hughes.kerry.vietnam/
MR. KERRY (Vietnam Veterans Against the War): There are all kinds of atrocities and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free-fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50-caliber machine guns which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search-and-destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare. All of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free-fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.
(End videotape)
Ah, the context. Then prosecute the thousands of other soldiers doing the policy of the USA, is what seems to be the message. Sorry, it's evidence of misleading quotations. Bush, Cheney don't ever have to worry about Viet Nam, though, because they didn't go.
Blacksheep, your 2nd link is merely an article highlighting Karen Huges blasting Kerry (remember Karen? She likened the pro-choicers to terrorists). Kerry offered the same explanation as I concluded above.
Bisous,
You're right. It's off-topic, but it seems to me that it's the starter of the thread that needs to complain. But I'm done with it anyway. If you'd like to pm another mod, then maybe some moderation is called for. I don't really think so, though.
Pat
black,
thanks for the links.
seems to me kerry was right with all he said back then in 1971. the whole war was an atrocity. using excessive force that killes innocent people can very well be called that.
i think he should fully stand to what he said back then...but then again...he is a politician.
moderation? not hardly, just is irritating how nearly every current events topic results in this tit for tat stuff in place of a discussion of the topic at hand. christ.
and i think any participant can make a point or complain, not just the thread host.
Ah, the context. Then prosecute the thousands of other soldiers doing the policy of the USA, is what seems to be the message. Sorry, it's evidence of misleading quotations.
Again, somehow you entirely missed the point. Exactly how are things being "taken out of context." You want to shift gears from Kerry's claiming he committed war attrocities to prosecuting everyone else? When asked point blank by Russert about whether he committed attrocities, here's his reply:
"Mr. Russert: You committed atrocities.
Sen. Kerry: Where did all that dark hair go, Tim? That's a big question for me. You know, I thought a lot, for a a long time, about that period of time, the things we said, and I think the word is a bad word..."
Bush, Cheney don't ever have to worry about Viet Nam, though, because they didn't go.
What does that have to do with anything. You obviously are buying into Kerry's attempt to make 4 months in Vietnam proof that he can be a successful president. Anyone who hasn't served, can't. Not only is that a load of crap, but Kerry further shows his twisting his service, which he claims included "war attrocieties" and is dishonoring he fellow servicemen. Which is it Kerry, decorated Vietnam Vet or war criminal who committed attrocities and was ashamed of his service record and those of his fellow Vets?
Confused, twisted, unsure, as usual, Kerry's being duplicious and can't even figure out how to effectively present himself.
As the ex-wife (in the married, but not 'churched' sense) of one of the members of your (US) elite squadrons, I can VERIFY that some soldiers are ORDERED to commit atrocities. To give details would be to betray my ex's confidentiality and I will not do that. They could send him to Leavenworth if I did.
Yeru, you are either naive, or loyally defending a premise which you know is wrong. I will not criticize you for this because imho it is your duty as a soldier to be loyal to your country, its ideals and to defend it/them at all costs in whatever ways you feel are appropriate.
But the rest of you should know that these kinds of actions are not uncommon. No, the majority of troops are not participating in torturing prisoners and murdering innocent citizens. But it is done often and is ORDERED FROM THE TOP.
Do not forget there is a chain of command. These soldiers are/were not acting in a vacuum. It is not their responsibility, they are soldiers and are/were following orders. The higher-ups should be made responsible. We need to support the rank and file, and not make them the scape-goats. I for one, applaud the young John Kerry for telling the truth, at least that's how I see it.
Let's get REAL, please!
The American people are good. They want justice and freedom for all. It's time they are told the truth about what happens in 'war'.
IMHO. Sorry for the rant, but we just don't have the facts, and WE PROBABLY NEVER WILL. All that will come of this argument is a lot of bad feelings on the board. My two (Canadian) cents.
tal
Hi Blacksheep,
Okay. You said yours and I said mine.
Talesin,
Thanks for the info from a military point of view. I guess that has to be considered when hearing their views.
Pat
To get back on topic, here's a question:
How do you think Americans would be reacting if the same thing happened to their people in Iraqi prisons?
Pat
