Torture to find WMD?

by Greenpalmtreestillmine 91 Replies latest social current

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  blacksheep

  As the ex-wife (in the married, but not 'churched' sense) of one of the members of your (US) elite squadrons, I can VERIFY that some soldiers are ORDERED to commit atrocities.

  Okay...I don't think anyone is disputing that. But info coming about about what took place in Abu doesn't fit in with some conspiracy to commit war crimes coming from the top. Investigators thus far have shown the reservists who committed the acts were poorly supervised, poorly trained--basically working at McDonald's one day and guarding an overcrowed prison of Iraqui war criminals the next. No, poor management isn't an excuse, but, trying to rush to turn this into some globalized orders for abuse coming all the way from Bush makes no sense. Yes, let's do wait until we hear more of the facts.
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  blacksheep

  How do you think Americans would be reacting if the same thing happened to their people in Iraqi prisons?

  I have no doubt that Americans have endured far worse torture at the Iraqi hands. I doubt that Iraqis follow the rules of the Geneva convention.

  If I heard details about soliders being tormented in prison, let's just say I know war's ugly, and I'm not going to disillusion myself that Iraqi insurgents are suddenly going to treat Americans with dignity and respect. I'm not going to say, "This treatment is reflective of the entire Arab world, down with Arabs."

  Plus, again, I am curious as to why people didn't express the same degree of outrage at the bombing, beating, torture of the American civilians whose charred, beaten bodies were hung up in front of cheering, that's CHEERING, crowds. I wonder how THEIR families felt?
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  talesin

  blacksheep

  I agree. The President is not privy to all that goes on, nor does he directly order it! Good point. These are facts of war, and we need not demonize Bush. Nor should we whitewash the roles his underlings and advisors or the CIA or whoever may have played in this. (Note I did not say 'minions'. *wink, wink, grin*)

  tal
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  SixofNine

  we need not demonize Bush.

  He's done that very well to himself.
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  SixofNine

  Six, what do you think they do to us at the Survival Evasion Resistence and Escape School. Next time someone force feeds you water for an hour, binds your hands, puts hood over your face and shoves you in a box literally the size of a suitcase and leaves you in that very cramp dark position for about 20 minutes after you've urinated all over yourself, all the while playing a loud tape of a young girl calling for help from daddy...or when someone strips you naked at around 4 AM when it's about 40 degrees farenheit outside, puts you in a saw dust pit and has you do exercises while hosing you down with ice cold water from an underground well...until you go through it...don't call me a liar.

  And now you're continueing. I'll not sit still and take it silently. Do not try and tell me or the forum that your going thru army school, voluntarily, is equivalent or as you said, worse, than what has happened in this current debacle (which you've been warned is only going to be revealed to be worse than what we've seen).
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  Yerusalyim

  Patio,

  How do you think Americans would be reacting if the same thing happened to their people in Iraqi prisons?

  WORSE happened to American POW's in the 1st Gulf War, and in this war...the big difference is that the ones who did it to the Iraqis ARE BEING PUNISHED. Get it through your thick liberal skin...there is zero moral equivalancy here because this was official policy for Saddam and company...and an exception to policy that is being punished under the US.
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  Yerusalyim

  SIX,

  You have no idea, and as far as Bush demonizing himself, he hasn't that's been the job of the leftist nut cases like Kerry...you're in good company. You lefties just hate the fact that we have a president with moral clarity...you prefered the dark days when one had to ask what the meaning of "is" is.
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  Greenpalmtreestillmine

  You have no idea, and as far as Bush demonizing himself, he hasn't that's been the job of the leftist nut cases like Kerry...you're in good company. You lefties just hate the fact that we have a president with moral clarity...you prefered the dark days when one had to ask what the meaning of "is" is.

  President Bush has "moral clarity"? Please, explain his "moral clarity".

  Give us examples of his "moral clarity" please!

  Sabrina
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  Greenpalmtreestillmine

  Yeru,

  I ask you the questions above. Please answer.

  Sabrina
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  blacksheep

  Not Yeru, but I'll offer my 2 cents.

  Moral: of or relating to principles of right and wong in behavior

  Clarity: teh quality or state of being clear.

  Kerry cannot even manage to figure out whether he's a war hero or whether he's a war criminal.

  The man's a Hamlet. He consitently flip flops. He's unsure. He consistently vacillates. He lacks vision. He's NOT a leader. Frankly, if you do not understand what moral clarity means, you very likely lack it. No bother, most people do.