To the people of Spain

by Amazing1914 117 Replies latest social current

  • core
    core

    Further info to indicate general responsibility of AL fo the arms in Afghanistan - highlighting of text mine:

    The end of the conflict between Afghanistan and the Soviet Union left Afghanistan with a glut of weapons and a highly militarized population with few employment opportunities. The war had also set a precedent for the violent defence of the Islamic religion. With the Soviet withdrawal, the newly mobilized and professionally trained mujahideen became available as warriors for other conflicts seen as Islamic holy wars. (2) In 1994, for example, the Yemeni president recruited Afghan veterans to participate in another jihad against socialists based in the South of Yemen. (4) Afghanistan has also supported the Chechen separatists, offering its services both as arms supplier and as a training ground for the rebels. (16)

    Finally, after more than two decades of ongoing hostilities, Afghanistan is covered in over ten million landmines and other unexploded shells. The country has the highest proportion of disabled people in the world. (8)

    TYPES/SOURCES OF FIREARMS WHICH ARE MISUSED

    Afghanistan is saturated with weapons left over from the war it fought with the Soviet Union; the country has been described as ?a warren of arsenals?. (4) After the USSR invaded Afghanistan in 1979, the United States began supplying large amounts of weapons to various pro-Islamic, anti-Soviet factions. When this practice ended in 1991, the US had sent Afghanistan an estimated 400,000 assault rifles, an undisclosed number of US ?Stinger? and British ?Blowpipe? portable anti-aircraft missiles and launchers, enormous quantities of Italian-made anti-personnel mines, and millions of rounds of ammunition. (5) The arms supplied by the US came to Afghanistan via Pakistan. At the peak of these transfers, 50 to 60 trucks were crossing the Pakistan-Afghanistan border each day. (3) Vast quantities of Soviet weapons remain in Afghanistan as well. Between 1956 and 1978, the USSR gave Afghanistan $1.25 billion (US) in military aid. During this time, the US, Pakistan, India and Egypt all contributed weaponry and military training to various factions within Afghanistan. Quantities of arms flowing into the country increased rapidly after the outbreak of active combat in 1979. (2)

    These weapons, along with those left over from the conflict in Cambodia, are the principal source for insurgent groups and crime rings in South Asia. Many of the weapons have ended up in Pakistan and India. Pakistan took advantage of its status as a transshipment point to divert up to 70% of the weapons sent by the US to arm the mujahideen. (2) (3)

    Arms have continued to flow into this war-torn region. The Russian Defence Minister admitted that his country had been ?rendering assistance continuously to the Northern Alliance since 1996?, in violation of the Tashkent Declaration. Russia had signed this Declaration in 1999 along with several of Afghanistan?s neighbours and the US. The agreement was intended to stem the flow of small arms into Afghanistan. (21)

    The recent US-led war in Afghanistan has continued to add to both the supply of and demand for small arms in the region. (3) (21) While the US and Japan pledged $95 million (US) to disarmament, demobilisation and reintegration initiatives, the Coalition practice of providing guns to their local allies has meant further increases in small arms proliferation. (20) The European Union also supplied arms to the Northern Alliance, reinterpreting its own 1996 arms embargo on Afghanistan to apply only to Taliban-controlled regions. (21)

    In addition to arms left over from wars, large quantities of illegal arms flow into Afghanistan from Pakistan. The illegal ?father-and-son? weapons manufacturing operations in Pakistan produce approximately 20,000 units each year. Many of these workshops are located along the border, and many arms flow into Afghanistan. (4)

    There is also some evidence that arms manufactured in China are moving through Pakistan and into Afghanistan, with the complicity of the Pakistan Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency. These transfers allegedly include hundreds of short-range rockets, mortar rounds, rocket-propelled grenades, anti-personnel mines, and heavy machine gun ammunition. (4) During the Taliban?s rule, Tajikistan was alleged to be smuggling arms to opposition forces in Northern Afghanistan in exchange for narcotics. (10) Tajiks are the second largest ethnic group in Afghanistan; the Pashtuns are the largest, making up approximately 40% of the population. The Taliban was composed primarily of Pashtuns. (11)

  • Double Edge
    Double Edge
    Yes, America would not even stop fundraising for the IRA who were bombing the British mainland for many years

    Simon... first of all "AMERICA" didn't fund raise for the IRA, SOME Americans did. I am part Irish-American and I live in California. It wasn't until about 10 years ago that I read an article about how SOME Irish-Americans contributed to the IRA. I couldn't believe it...where had I been? How long had this been going on? Why in the h*ll didn't somebody get the word out before then, or had it always been around? All I can say was that some of those Irish-Americans who live in certain pockets of the U.S., like Boston etc. have good 'ol boys clubs that continue to hold grudges and perpetuate hate, even though they are several generations removed. As far as other parts of the country, especially the West Coast (California) our Irish events basically amount to celebrating St. Patricks Day, and attending an Irish Faire ever other year or so. I'm proud of my heritage, but consider myself an American. I also agree with that poster on the other board that you referenced when they stated that Sept. 11th was a wake up call for them to stop supporting the Irish Terrorists. And on that I do agree with you... they are no different than any other terrorist and need to be exterminated.

  • Simon
    Simon

    America didn't put a stop to it though - they could easily have stopped public fundraising (I'm sure Al Quida isn't allowed parades and collection boxes for instance)

    I think as a whole, the west needs to wake up to cause and affect. Everything that we do affects the world we live in and affects us.

    It can be big things, like supplying arms and training to some "group" who will fight on our behalf against a regime who's ideology we just disagree with ("they are 'left wing' so we have to take them out").

    It can even be little things - recognising that buying that cheap jar of coffee contributes to global terror and murder (due to big companies keeping coffee prices artificially low, farmers can't make money growing it, they grow drugs instead, drugs are funded with arms sales etc... in a big complicated cycle).

    The comparison to a global village is a good and poignant one - if the world was 100 people then 5 (?) would be American and own 95% of the wealth and be a loan shark to the rest who would live in poverty. Tell me, would anyone expect a situation like that would be sustainable and no one would put the windows through of the big house once in a while? What is needed is some empathy and sympathy (empathy with some action attached) to other people's conditions and situations and ultimately this helps US jus as much as it helps THEM.

    What is needed IMO is more equality. But I don't think most western people are going to want to give up some of their standard of living any time soon (ya'all complain about having to pay $2 per gallon for christs sake !) but it will happen whether you like it or not - the easy way or the hard way. America is already finding it hard to compete economically with countries like India and China that is set to overtake it as the global industrial powerhouse.

    When you are on the top, try not to make many enemies because when you are on the way down you may need people's help more.

  • donkey
    donkey

    Simon

    While your ideals are noble and commendable, an altruistic solution will never be played out. What you are advocating is people giving up what they have to give to some "fe'rners" who are different than them. I happen to be one of the folk who will never give up what I have accomplished or own without a fight. I am out for me first and me alone.

    As far as the other nations like China and india being a global power I have no issue with free trade and using free trade to equalize situations of inequality. Where I do have an issue is with the intelligence of the people who empowered or gave away knowledge that enabled the competitive advantages the USA had to begin with. But if it all changes then so be it...its up to every one of us to hedge our personal circumstances against whatever changes occur. I for one would love to see more growth in China right now as I have factored them into my own plans for my own means.

    One of the key differences between a China and say the middle east is that China is on its way to being totally capitalist in a secular government. Although the Chinese government is communist they are communist in name only right now. The capitalist progress in China and in Russia will never be reversed. In the latest billionaire count Russia is second to the USA for the largest number of billionaires. This is all the more interesting when you consider how this might have been accomplished in a communist society or in a society that has only recently dropped communism as it was oppresively practiced.

  • little witch
    little witch

    The 'west' obviously has more than one meaning and I believe a convuluted one. Simon almost makes it sound as if west means the U.S. Not so.

    If you live in France, Spain, England, Scotland, Ireland, Morocco, Belgium, etc and you are using gasoline, oil, any fuel derived from oil, well you are involved in this dilemma.

    Do americans use "more oil"? Of course we do. We have a big population and our nation is more vast. People here travel longer distances to work and to vacation than say....England. We therefore pay a little less per gallon but buy more gas to get there.

    If you are going to haggle over gas prices then factor in the differences of these factors with your argument. Europe is alot closer to the oilfields than we are also. Did you consider that? Cross-Atlantic shipping factors in too.

    Let's discuss these factors before we make broad and slandering remarks. If you don't, I will.

  • roybatty
    roybatty
    The murder of Daniel Pearl.

    CZAR

    Ouch! Good example.

  • roybatty
    roybatty
    America didn't put a stop to it though - they could easily have stopped public fundraising (I'm sure Al Quida isn't allowed parades and collection boxes for instance)

    Actually, I would agree with this. It's amazing that the FBI is closing looking at every Mosqe (sp?) here in the Chicago-land area (probably acroos the whole US) and has arrested scores of Muslim leaders for funding terrorists. I have yet to read about an Irish-Catholic church being raided or Irish-American non-profit group being investigated by the FBI for funding the IRA. I guess with people like Ted Kennedy on your side it's hard to arrest these people.

    The comparison to a global village is a good and poignant one - if the world was 100 people then 5 (?) would be American and own 95% of the wealth and be a loan shark to the rest who would live in poverty. Tell me, would anyone expect a situation like that would be sustainable and no one would put the windows through of the big house once in a while? What is needed is some empathy and sympathy (empathy with some action attached) to other people's conditions and situations and ultimately this helps US jus as much as it helps THEM.

    What nation contributes more to helping third world countries then the US? What world-power fights the bad guys, even rebuilds the nations they fought for and AGAINST and then leaves?

    What is needed IMO is more equality. But I don't think most western people are going to want to give up some of their standard of living any time soon (ya'all complain about having to pay $2 per gallon for christs sake !) but it will happen whether you like it or not - the easy way or the hard way. America is already finding it hard to compete economically with countries like India and China that is set to overtake it as the global industrial powerhouse.
    The biggest threat that faces America isn't India or China but rather the greed of it's own people. For the last 10 years the good "blue coller" jobs have been exported to China because the Motorolas, IBMs and GMs of the world want more profit. These jobs have been replaced with working at Wal-Mart. It's no differnt than what Britain went through. Where are all the awesome British motorcyles from the 60's??? Thank you Japan. I'm not sure what will happen. People want keep goods, like what they sell at Wal-Mart but also want good paying jobs. You can't have both.
  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    While your ideals are noble and commendable, an altruistic solution will never be played out. What you are advocating is people giving up what they have to give to some "fe'rners" who are different than them. I happen to be one of the folk who will never give up what I have accomplished or own without a fight. I am out for me first and me alone.

    Simon's words above are not "altruistic", they are pragmatic. What Simon is advocating is not "I have to lose now so someone else can win", it's win/win.

    This stupid selfish (mostly stupid, the selfishness is excusable) idea that someone has lose, or "stay down" for someone else to be "up" is at the heart of what stands in the way of all human progress.

    I happen to be one of the folk who will never give up what I have accomplished or own without a fight. I am out for me first and me alone.

    Then I don't suppose there will be anyone to mourn if you lose that fight?

  • little witch
    little witch

    Six,

    How's about we let Simon speak and explain for himself eh?

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Have I in any way prevented that, Little Witch?

    Meanwhile, I'll feel free to comment on Simon's public words on a public forum, if that's ok with you?

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