Chance or intelligent design?

ExBethelitenowPIMA

Cofty could you answer how the single cell came about by chance?

I know the argument for complexity in nature says natural selection over billions of years but this could not explain the complexity of the single cell the building blocks of life?

cofty

Thanks. I'm at work now but looking forward to responding later.

Why frame the question as arriving entirely "by chance?" I notice that proponents of creation/design seem to always frame the alternative to creation/design as "by chance", but naturalistic processes don't consist entirely of chance processes. Scientists have discovered that much of nature works in an orderly way, so orderly a manner that scientists have called a number of aspects of nature "laws of nature".

The means that life arrived into existence by naturalistic means involved the orderly laws of nature and the orderly forces of nature, not just chance processes. Scientists have made much progress in discovering types of natural conditions in which numerous organic molecules (including amino acids, peptides, sugars, lipids, membranes of lip bilayers, nucleobases [building blocks of RNA and DNA], and more) spontaneously come into existence. I am confident that scientists will eventually discover conditions which will result in life naturalistically coming into existence by a series of naturalistic processes.

Furthermore, the first biological cell to come into existence must have been much less complex the the simplest cell which currently exists on Earth. The cells which exist today (even the simplest) have evolved (partly by natural selection) over hundreds of millions of years from an ancestor cell.

enoughisenough

I posted this under a Lazarus come out....but I think it fits here nicely for consideration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXexaVsvhCM&t=3s

Beth Sarim

In JW theology, this is the slam dunk when JW's discredit evolution when giving full credit to intelligent design. Oh how could intelligent design just 'happen'.

Disillusioned JW

Correction: Where I said "... membranes of lip bilayers ..." I meant ".... membranes of lipid bilayers ...".

ExBethelitenowPIMA

Disalusioned what other option is there for the origin of life?

it’s either chance or intelligent design

is there any other option?

Disillusioned JW

ExBethelitenowPIMA, I already told you the option. It is the orderly "laws" of nature (including something like natural selection acting upon chemical evolution) and forces of nature acting in an orderly manner in combination with chance, not chance alone. The types of organic molecules I mentioned in my prior posts spontaneously come into existence by such, and I presume that life also came into existence by such. Such was even illustrated (including by having experiments performed) in a science show (on PBS television) by Stephen Hawking in which Stephen Hawking was expressing his ideas on this subject. The show was an episode of the miniseries called " Genius by Stephen Hawking ". The description of the show says in part the following. "Professor Stephen Hawking reveals our true potential by challenging volunteers and the viewer to think like the greatest geniuses of the past. Using large-scale experiments and incredible stunts, we'll get to grips with molecular biology, astrophysics and even quantum mechanics."

For example, see the program segment of episode 5 called " Genius by Stephen Hawking: How Atoms Are Created in the Magnet Experiment " (Episode 5 is called "What Are We?"). That web page has the description of the following. "The volunteers are given magnets and an energy source to see how complex molecules can form almost at random with just a bit of energy. We learn that the building blocks of life can appear seemingly out of nowhere if the correct conditions are present." Granted that description says "at random" but the show points out that laws of nature are also involved.

What does the "A" in "PIMA' mean?

JW_Researcher

Perhaps it would be helpful to expand upon your understanding of "chance"? Does that mean "random chance" to you?

Your word choice kinda' seems like you might be leaning toward a Creator. If so, who created the Creator?

I've yet to chance upon a truly satisfying explanation.

enoughisenough

the whole thing is circular in a sense...to me, nothing really happens without a design to start with. I can throw all the findings ( which themselves have been designed ) onto a worktable, and I could mix them up every day for years and they would never evolve into what I hope to manufacture from the findings. I have designed what I want and I have to put it together from the findings others designed and manufactured. Have any of you experienced otherwise? I have to go along with the scripture Roman 1: 20 For his invisible qualities ae clearly seen from the world's creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable. ( it then gets circular because people say, "where did God come from?" I have no answer, but the fact that all else and we are here, then so must the creator be...IMHO

Chance or intelligent design?

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