Jehovah’s Witness who posted criticisms on Reddit can remain anonymous, judge rules

by Tameria2001 95 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    The attorney for Darkspilver was weak in my opinion. You don't go to a gun fight with a knife. He needed a bigger (and probably more expensive) lawyer. She at least needs to read some testimonies from those like us who have been shunned for thought crimes.

    A good lawyer could have baited the judge into asking Polidoro if its true that people are disfellowshipped for no longer believing that the WT is God's Sole Channel of Communication on earth. It would have been awesome to get Polidoro's answer to that question on record.

    Darkspilver needed Angus Stewart!

  • Simon
    Simon
    WHY do the WT attys need his identity (or any member's identity under the so-called freedom of religion) if info has to remain confidential (really?!) -- is this until the law of the land changes but WT spying is standard procedure or for Darkspilver's online activity to be monitored by big brother & co.

    Because they are pursuing breach of copyright and need the identity in order to do that. It's clearly nothing todo with freedom of religion or criticism as they do no sue for the identity of people who are criticizing them.

  • Simon
    Simon
    A good lawyer could have baited the judge into asking Polidoro if its true that people are disfellowshipped for no longer believing that the WT is God's Sole Channel of Communication on earth. It would have been awesome to get Polidoro's answer to that question on record.

    Good for who? It would do absolutely nothing for the case as it's little todo with religious freedom and everything todo with copyright.

    If you go to court determined to fight a battle other than the one the case is about, you make make some interesting points but you'll lose.

    Anything that isn't about copyright is completely irrelevant as this is about copyright. The claims that copyright laws shouldn't be applied because of "freedom of religion" is a weak argument that is difficult to make. It may play well for the gallery but is unlikely to make for a winning outcome.

  • Corney
    Corney
    Sea Breeze She at least needs to read some testimonies from those like us who have been shunned for thought crimes.

    Did you read the order?

    Darkspilver states that, in his experience, people who voice their disagreement or doubts “face rejection [by] and disapproval” from other members of the Jehovah’s Witness community, including leadership and ordinary members. (Id.) Those who openly disagree with the organization’s teachings publicly may be labelled “apostates” and be “excommunicated” or “disfellowshipped” from the community. (Id.) Other Jehovah’s Witnesses, including friends and family members, cut off ordinary social interactions with people who have been disfellowshipped. (Id.) Darkspilver has personal knowledge of people who, after voicing certain opinions, have been shunned by Jehovah’s Witnesses, including people with whom they had close relationships. (Id.) (p. 2)


    Watch Tower further argues that Watch Tower is not Darkspilver’s local church and has no ability to excommunicate him from his local congregation. (Polidoro Decl., ¶ 10.) Nevertheless, Darkspilver has expressed substantial concerns over having his identity revealed to anyone in the Jehovah’s Witness community. The Court finds that Darkspilver has demonstrated significant harms if his identity were revealed publicly or even if it were revealed to Jehovah’s Witnesses in his congregation. (p. 12-13)


    The judge is informed about shunning. And IMO it's not a great idea to influence her through out-of-court testimonies from strangers. If you think your testimonies can be helpful, contact Darkspilver's attorney.

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    Contrary to popular opinion the courts (both attorney's and judges) have to work within the framework of the law. Attorney must stick to the facts of the case (in this instance copyright law). Judges have to stick to deciding the issue in front of them. For example if I get rear ended by a JW and sue him because he dosen't have any insurance, I can't attack him in court over his religion. Also keep in mind before the actual trial, attorney's do a lot of jockeying for position. That's what is going on here, nothing has been decided yet in relation to the actual case.

    Incidently, I'm pretty sure you don't have any legal right to hide your identity if you choose to go public with information. People fighting the WTBS should keep that in mind, and remember that the WTBS sees all of us as an existential threat. They might be right about that.

  • I believe in overlapping
    I believe in overlapping

    Incidently, I'm pretty sure you don't have any legal right to hide your identity if you choose to go public with information

    Like: Julian Assange

  • Anders Andersen
    Anders Andersen

    @thefallguy:

    This case wasn't really about copyright yet. It was about whether Reddit should disclose Darkspilvers identity to Watchtower.

    So the judge only checked if Watchtower's copyright claim have at least some merit. This judge didn't need to really rule on whether Darkspilver violated copyright or not.

    The judged ruled that Watchtowers case has enough merit to justify sueing him for copyright infringement, therefore she ordered Reddit to give up his ID to Watchtowers lawyers.

  • Brokeback Watchtower
    Brokeback Watchtower

    https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.336935/gov.uscourts.cand.336935.18.0.pdf

    Darkspilver states that, in his experience, people who voice their disagreement or doubts
    “face rejection [by] and disapproval” from other members of the Jehovah’s Witness community,
    including leadership and ordinary members. (Id.) Those who openly disagree with the
    organization’s teachings publicly may be labelled “apostates” and be “excommunicated” or
    “disfellowshipped” from the community. (Id.) Other Jehovah’s Witnesses, including friends and
    family members, cut off ordinary social interactions with people who have been disfellowshipped.
    (Id.) Darkspilver has personal knowledge of people who, after voicing certain opinions, have been
    shunned by Jehovah’s Witnesses, including people with whom they had close relationships. (Id.)

    This is so true I was charge with and disfellowshipped for "Speaking Against The Organization" I asked the elders who summoned me to a kangaroo court Judicial hearing to write down the charges and sign it, to which they refused, I then asked to have my lawyer present to which they refused, and while at the meeting I was asked if I had any recording devices as these were not allowed, to which I said why all this secrecy to which they assured me that the secrecy was for my protection not theirs, to which I laughed and mocked them.

    In balancing the harms, while considering the fair use defense, the Court finds that they tip sharply in Darkspilver’s favor. However, the Court notes that Darkspilver’s concerns stem largely out of his fear that those in his congregation will discover his identity and shun him. If Reddit reveals Darkspilver’s identity to Watch Tower’s counsel, under an “attorney’s eyes only” restriction, then any harm to Darkspilver would be alleviated. This restriction would enable Watch Tower to pursue its copyright claim without causing harm to Darkspilver.
    Therefore, the Court HEREBY GRANTS IN PART and DENIES IN PART Darkspilver’s motion to quash. Reddit shall respond to the subpoena and provide the requested information to Watch Tower’s counsel. However, only attorneys of record in this matter may obtain information about Darkspilver’s identity. Watch Tower’s attorneys of record shall not to disclose Darkspilver’s identity to anyone else without approval in a Court Order from this Court. For example, Watch Tower’s attorneys of record may not disclose Darkspilver’s identity even to its client, staff, or expert witnesses without approval in a Court Order from this Court.*3

    This is a good thing which may put the WT legal team on the horns of a dilemma and open them up to more lawsuits in the future.

    If Watch Tower elects to file a lawsuit against Darkspilver, the Court directs Watch Tower to seek to file the suit under his pseudonym and to keep his actual identity under seal, for attorney’s eyes only. Moreover, Watch Tower is admonished that any violation of this Order will be sanctioned and that this Court retains jurisdiction over any potential violation of this Order.

    I think this is a very good thing!

    *3 Watch Tower claimed at the hearing that it plans to disclose Darkspilver’s identity to its forensic experts so that Watch Tower can determine how Darkspilver obtained confidential information in the chart and prevent further disclosure of that confidential information. This purpose is not related at all to a copyright issue, and for that reason, the Court rejects that form of disclosure.

    Yea!!!! squirm WT squirm.

  • Brokeback Watchtower
    Brokeback Watchtower

    I think the Watchtower's attorneys will reveal information to their masters at WT headquarters and let the lawsuits begin. The WT is desperate and so they will probably shoot themselves in the foot legally on this court order. Boy their legal team is being spread mighty thin with all the legal battles they got going. I would hate to be an attorney for the retards running the WT.

    If they put their legal team in more jeopardy by making them reveal who DS is then I'm sure a big rift will happen inside WT legal department and the GB, which with all the legal problems they are facing in the courts is not going to have a very good out come for the financial situation of the WT.

    I think this is a very fair decision by the court and look forward to the outcome for DS and WT corp.(may the GB rot in hell).

  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister
    If you go to court determined to fight a battle other than the one the case is about, you make make some interesting points but you'll lose.
    I fully agree.However the lawyer for EFF was weak ( as was the judge imho, who didn’t inform herself whatsoever) and the point that should have been made is “ is a Jehovah’s Witness lawyer more beholden to his profession, or to Watchtower, does he not have to obey god as ruler rather than man”?

    In other words, is it more important to keep the congregation clean of apostates or to uphold your professional standards and not reveal darkspilvers identity to watchtower?

    I think we all know the answer to that.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit