Good Guys VS Bad Guys: Facts Nobody Wants to KNow

by TerryWalstrom 143 Replies latest jw friends

  • cofty
    Tucker Carlson and left wing Young Turks agree

    For fuck's sake. Why don't you tell us what David Ike thinks while your at it?

  • LoveUniHateExams

    right wing Fox commentator Tucker Carlson and left wing Young Turks agree that rebel fighters had the most to gain from the chemical attack - this goes to show that 'Good Guys vs Bad Guys' is much more muddied in Syria than elsewhere.

    Rebel fighters may have more to gain but this isn't evidence, it's still speculation. For instance do rebel fighters have a chemical weapons capability?

    Whenever suspicions of chemical attacks in Syria have happened, Western countries have asked for UN inspectors to ascertain if chemical weapons were used and, if so, to find out who used them.

    Russia, a member of the UN, has vetoed this at every turn.

    Can you or anyone else explain that, whereas Syrian people's claims that 'Assad did it' are doubted ... whenever Palestinians claim Israel attacked them, the Palestinians are always believed on face value?

    Why do people like Corbyn believe Palestinians' claims on face value but not Syrians'?

    I mean, both Palestinians and Syrians are Arab people ... are Palestinians more trustworthy than Syrians?

  • cofty

    That Asaad has used chemical weapons indiscriminately against his own people on multiple occasions is beyond dispute - well that's not entirely true. Asaad, Putin, Corbyn and SBF will deny it of course.

    The latest attack came from barrel bombs launched from a helicopter. The rebels have no access to helicopters.

    Russia is a permanent member of the UN security council and as such has an obligation to take action against governments who use banned weapons. They veto all resolutions to that effect every single time.

    International inspectors were kept away from the site of the latest attack by Asaad's security forces for almost a week after they arrived in Syria. By now all evidence of chlorine will likely be removed. They will in any case be unable to say where the attack came from, only whether scientific evidence of a chemical attack was detected.

    The UK, USA and France did the right thing. It was almost certainly futile in the long term but it made a point that had to be made.

  • slimboyfat

    Why are you ignoring this question? What weapons did the US use in Fallujah? How can you claim moral superiority?

    I don’t know if Assad used chemical weapons or not. Robert Fisk doubts whether there was a chemical attack at all.

  • LoveUniHateExams

    Robert Fisk doubts whether there was a chemical attack at all - Fisk doubts Syrians, even when they're frothing at the mouth, but he never doubts Palestinians.

    Allow me to expand on the 'Good Guys vs Bad Guys' theme mentioned in the OP.

    For right-wingers, the 'Good Guys' are themselves, their country, their government, their culture, their skin colour. For them, the 'Bad Guys' are foreign governments, foreign people, foreign cultures, and compatriots of a different skin colour.

    All this is easy to understand and ubiquitous - it's not just white right-wingers who think the above. We humans are a tribal, territorial species and 'othering' has always happened.

    Things get complicated when we try to understand left-wingers' 'Good Guys' and 'Bad Guys'.

    Western left-wingers tend to dislike their own governments. They like themselves and others who share the same opinions. They have a soft spot for Cuba, Venezuela and the old Soviet Union (which is why Putin gets an easy ride). They usually like blacks, gays and Muslims. They can only see Africa as a victim, so they like the poor wittle Africans. They like ethnic minorities, except white South African farmers. They like diversity of cultures but not diversity of thought. This explains why inclusive, diverse, tolerant left-wingers exclude free thinkers and members of the 'Awkward Squad'.

    Left-wingers dislike the British Empire, Israel, in fact anyone who dares to think differently. It's very difficult to see rationality in the Left's thinking.

    The only way it starts to make sense is if you think that they hate the West because the West is capitalist and democratic.

  • slimboyfat

    It was Syrians in Douma who told Robert Fisk they didn’t know anything about a chemical attack.

    Israel itself confirmed they used white phosphorous.

  • LoveUniHateExams

    Forgot to add: some left-wingers also hate masculinity.

    They condemn it as 'toxic masculinity'.

    So far this year, there have been over 50 deaths by stabbing in London. If anything should be condemned as 'toxic masculinity' then this should be. But because the vast majority of criminals (and victims) are black, left-wingers get themselves in a bit of a pickle. It seems they've decided that only white males are guilty of toxic masculinity.

    So London males stabbing each other is not due to 'toxic masculinity' after all, it's literally due to anything else - it's due to institutionalised racism, or poverty, or because the Tories shut the local youth club. Strange that, because left-wingers have no problems condemning other current events as 'toxic masculinity' ...

  • LoveUniHateExams

    It was Syrians in Douma who told Robert Fisk they didn’t know anything about a chemical attack - this is just for this recent case.

    What about all the previous cases?

    Is Robert Fisk claiming that Assad has never used chemical weapons during the Syrian civil war?

  • RubaDub

    United States soldiers fought and died in WWll —as did fighters from all over. I never heard a veteran regret that they fought that war.

    The ones who regret it are dead.

    Rub a Dub

  • humbled

    RubaDub— Even if a fellow volunteers for war and knows the danger—he still wants to live.

    My dad was not a “gung -ho” fellow. Respectful of what you say, the veterans from my childhood in the military ( l am 66) were still in uniform and they did not regret their service. Others left the army fog civilian life after the war. In both groups there were vets critical of the romantic hype that sometime glamorized something they didn’t see that way.

    I was an infant when he went to Korea. But l was a peer of the Vietnam era vets as are many on this forum. There was controversy in my high school full of military brats. Now my dad was not the 18 year old private or the 26 year old sergeant anymore. Sent to Vietnam as a 41 year old captain, in no time his letters reflected deep disillusionment with the war. His deployment was in fact terminated by a massive ulcer.

    I talked to a Desert Storm veteran Saturday at Farmers Market. I mentioned the thread in the forum here.,He snorted about WWll being a war not regretted by vets . He mentioned that it was only an offshoot of WWl which, had the terms of peace been better laid out , was a war that shouldn’t have happened. He suggested l learn to meditate and leave off such discussions. He is sick of war.

    Dad and l used to talk about how crooked things could be in the country. He would concede that our government hadn’t always been upright in its conduct with say, native Americans, and would ask” But what can we do?” He was always trying to be a good person.

    He felt the military was unfortunately necessary. And didn’t like to hear people call veterans of war “heroes “. he always said he wasn’t a hero. He just was doing his duty. But he really wanted to live too.

    edit: if we didn’t have this industrial military complex running the world maybe we would find ourself working for peace without bombs and guns. My dad would have loved that.

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