Good Guys VS Bad Guys: Facts Nobody Wants to KNow

by TerryWalstrom 36 Replies latest jw friends

  • TerryWalstrom
    TerryWalstrom
    FACTS WE DON'T WANT TO KNOW
    _____
    The purpose of war is to kill humans.
    Which humans?
    Declared enemies. BAD GUYS.
    Ah, but who declares and identifies the enemy for us?
    Us, the GOOD GUYS?
    _____
    Pick any year since 1776 and there is about a 91% chance that America was involved in some war during that calendar year.

    The Good Guys dropped Atomic Weapons on civilians at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The acute effects of the atomic bombings killed 90,000–146,000 people in Hiroshima and 39,000–80,000 people in Nagasaki; roughly half of the deaths in each city occurred on the first day.

    Say what you like or believe about that.
    Innocent people died and bad guys died.

    So-called Military Intelligence INFORMS these wars.
    Deliberate lies are told to Congress and the American people and especially to whoever is President at the time.

    The C.I.A. has a horrendous record of meddling in sovereign countries and overturning democratically elected leaders.
    ______

    HOW is it we think the U.S. has a MORAL HIGHGROUND to go to war against any other country considering our own history?

    Guys my age who fought in the VIETNAM WAR were honest people, courageous, and patriotic. What exactly did they achieve? 58,220 U.S. military fatal casualties seem to mean absolutely NOTHING.

    They followed orders. They achieved nothing. They died.

    (I have no moral superiority to the men who fought or died.
    I refused military service.
    I achieved nothing as well and I was "serving Almighty God" which means, i.e. believing something lying assholes told me was true.)
    ______
    BELIEF

    Do you believe your President? Do you believe your F.B.I.?
    Do you believe your C.I.A.?
    Do you believe your news outlets?
    ARE WE THE GOOD GUYS? Do we have a Moral standing to inflict death on
    foreign countries as superpower heroes?

    The Democrats and the Republicans are Both parties of WAR.

    Newspapers owned by corporations in the weapons business get to write the talking points.

    ARE WE THE GOOD GUYS?

    Obama ran as a peace president. America dropped 26,171 bombs in 2016. What a bloody end to Obama's reign!
    Is there a disconnect?

    ____
    Behind all the wars you'll find BELIEF in leaders. Leaders with Advisors. Advisors whose motives and foibles are not transparent. "Intelligence Agencies" free to do as they please with no accountability. NO MORAL HIGH GROUND.

    We can only see the effects of their policies. Death. War. Blame. Fear.
    Rinse and repeat.
    ___
    Why do you believe what you believe anyway?
    These are FACTS NOBODY WANTS TO KNOW.
    ________


  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    The purpose of war is to kill humans - people are unfortunately killed in wars but it's overly simplistic to highlight this as 'the purpose of war'.

    What's the purpose of Islamist groups' current war against Assad in Syria?

    What was the purpose of the Allies' war against the Nazis in WW2?

    What was the purpose of Britain's war against Argentina in 1982?

    (Each example has a different answer.)

    The Good Guys dropped Atomic Weapons on civilians at Hiroshima and Nagasaki - this was indeed terrible. I don't know enough about history to comment further. Japan has moved on from Hiroshima and Nagasaki and has good relations with the US. Perhaps me and you can learn from Japan.

    The acute effects of the atomic bombings killed 90,000–146,000 people in Hiroshima and 39,000–80,000 people in Nagasaki; roughly half of the deaths in each city occurred on the first day - terrible but to put this in perspective: in the same century that the US dropped two atomic bombs, Chairman Mao murdered 60 million of his own people. Stalin also murdered millions of his own people. Hitler killed 6 million Jews. Pol Pot massacred many of his people. Ditto Robert Mugabe. Ditto Idi Amin.

    Obama ran as a peace president. America dropped 26,171 bombs in 2016. What a bloody end to Obama's reign!
    Is there a disconnect? - Barry O' Bama was allowed to get away with murder because his status as first black president made him a darling of the MSM.

    ARE WE THE GOOD GUYS? - compared to ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Assad, Russia, Iran, Saudi ... YES, YOU (THE US) ARE THE GOOD GUYS.

    You make mistakes, do things wrong sometimes and deserve criticism ... but you are the good guys ...
  • humbled
    humbled

    In 1901, novelist Mark Twain wrote about the aftermath of the war for the Phillipines:

    We have robbed a trusting friend of his land and his liberty; we have invited clean young men to shoulder a discredited musket and do bandit's work under a flag which bandits have been accustomed to fear, not to follow; we have debauched America's honor and blackened her face before the world.

    What Twain wrote is much your thoughts here, Terry. My father would likely have agreed as well—And he was a veteran of three wars. Drafted as a teen for WWll, war again as a reservist for Korea he stayed in until after a final deployment to Vietnam and then he retired in 1971. He became disillusioned. He saw the abuse of military force for no good cause, the needless loss of young soldiers and the harm done to civilians. (He adopted a orphan at the end of a hardship tour to Korea 1967, a four year old girl, my sister Meg, who brought our total of children to nine.)

    He drank a lot.

    I have regard for young men and women who serve for ideals. But l have contempt for cold blooded aggression and underhanded subversion that spill blood for power.

    I was raised around the military. I was raised to believe in a God that blessed some wars. But what we humans are doing on earth is sick.

    There is unarguable evidence of criminal intervention by the USA in Nicaragua and the Congo. Criminal, immoral, irresponsible —l understand why the U.S. would not join the World Court. The actual government records of those CIA crimes are available IF PEOPLE WANT THE FACTS as you say.

    Other predations of the US from earlier times noted: the Mexican War in 1848 to take land (Not to mention the genocide of native people) and the pocketing of Phillipines by slaughter. And more. And more.

    The idea that any person or any nation can pretend they stand on moral high ground after destabilizing other countries and murdering their people is silly. The US is a super power for sure. But it is not honest about how it does it’s business.

    The U.S.A. is no worse than many other governments. Many are worse for sure. But once l learned that our government lies to us about who, why and how the US is attacking and how it treats the blood of its citizens—l do not believe, don’t trust in the rightness of my government. I don’t automatically genuflect at a declaration of war. Blood should count for good if you have to spill it.

    I am glad you brought this up, Terry. You struggled to do the right thing and went to prison and f—ked away years with the JWs. It’s hard to figure this stuff out. I think so,

    My dad did the best he could to figure it out too. He survived all that war—and survived the alcohol by leaving it alone after a time. That stuff tore him down but he moved on. We are moving on too. We move away and don’t justify a wrong path we took.

    It’s a tough topic. But it is good to be clear about what facts are. And good to face them.

    Maeve

  • cofty
    cofty

    The free world should be eternally grateful that the USA carries a big stick.

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    During Japan's war with China (1937-1945) At least 20,000,000 Chinese died. This works out to roughly the equivalent of Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined, every month for eight years.

    I guess we could have taken the moral high ground and just let them keep killing.

  • zeb
    zeb

    .....soldier gaunt soldier from where comes your kind,

    with weapons beyond the reach of my mind,

    with weapons so awesome the world must grow cold

    and die in its tracks if it does not turn kind...........



    Australia's Minster for defence recently stated that the US has not asked for Australian involvement in the Syrian war, but by God you could tell she was hoping they would. The Liberal govt in its obsession to be seen 'up-there' with the' big-boys' got us into Vietnam and left this country with wounds not healed today.It is the same party running (!) govt today.

    Thankyou all for your sobering comments.

  • zeb
    zeb

    I don't know what the today thing is it just popped in. ?

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    There's no doubt we can imagine a dominant world power that would be a lot worse than America, such as if the Nazis, or imperial Japan had won Second World War.

    At the same time it is surely possible to imagine, and hope, that America (and its allies) could be a much better influence on the world, by not exploiting the resources of weaker nations, propping up tyrannical dictators and regimes, and overthrowing governments.

    China is the most realistic and relevant alternative. Which is scary from a western perspective because they don't seem to share our notions of individualism and freedom. But this doesn't mean they are without values. In the place of individualism they seem to value community, collectivity and authority.

  • _Morpheus
    _Morpheus
    could be a much better influence on the world, by not exploiting the resources of weaker nations, propping up tyrannical dictators and regimes, and overthrowing governments.

    Complete and total leftist propoganda bullshit.

  • cofty
    cofty
    China is the most realistic and relevant alternative. Which is scary from a western perspective because they don't seem to share our notions of individualism and freedom. - SBF

    China is an enemy of freedom and democracy. Anybody who sees China as a "realistic and relevant alternative" to Western liberal democracy is a useful idiot.

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