Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden 207 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Fisherman

  Liar. The Bible never mentions 70 years of exile.

  It does but you don’t like it because JW derive 1914 from 70 so you don’t like 1914 or JW.

  You only post believes here but nothing of substance. Nothing. Zero.

  f you believe Adam and Eve were real people, and the serpent really spoke to them, do you also believe god made the lot in 6 days?

  I believe the Bible says that Adam and Eve were historical people.

  WT teaches that the Bible says that God created the universe in 6 time periods that the Bible refers to as “days”. And that the length of each time period is not disclosed in the Bible. And on the 7th day or time period, God proceeded to rest from his creation work. Paul wrote that the 7th day was still ongoing during his time in the 1st century and JW teach that we are still living on God’s rest or 7th day even now. At some point in the future God’s rest will come to an end and so will the 7th day. This had prophetic significance to JW in the past.

  It is hard to know for sure what the Bible means. First because the Bible is written in ancient languages that need to be interpreted to a native language of the reader. Even if one knows Bible languages such as Hebrew and Greek, many words and expressions in those Bible languages may have conveyed a different meaning in Bible times. Then you have to interpret what the Bible is implying because some things are literal and some allegorical and some both. The Bible uses expressions such as let the reader use discernment and to him who has ears listen referring to the meaning of passages. JW have beliefs of what the Bible means that others disagree. Therefore just about everything is arguable and you can argue about what word mean, what a prophecy means ir is implying or how it applies and just about everything it says. JW proclaim that God helps us understand the Bible.
  
  
• 

  stan livedeath

  lets try again

  so @ Scholar and Fisherman
  if you believe Adam and Eve were real people, and the serpent really spoke to them, do you also believe god made the lot in 6 days?

  a simple yes or no will do.
• 

  Fisherman

  What do you mean by made the lot. What do you mean by 6 days.
• 

  stan livedeath

  • 

    Fishermanan hour agoWhat do you mean by made the lot. What do you mean by 6 days

    i'm sure you know full well what i mean. Look up the creation account in a bible--i havent got one.
• 

  Jorden

  Even if such a war were to break out, it would not be evidence of God, or that it happened specifically because of ‘prophecies’, though it is plausible that people in positions of authority could deliberately try to influence events to ‘fulfil’ it.

  United Nations: Guterres warns ‘we are on the edge of an abyss’ | Economy News | Al Jazeera

  [United Nations: Guterres warns ‘we are on the edge of an abyss’
  The UN’s chief painted a grim picture of a divided and polarised world and urged solidarity among nations.
  

  The world has never been more threatened or more divided, United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres told nations of the world on Tuesday as he kicked off the 76th General Assembly session, urging all 193 member states to “wake up” and realise that solidarity is the only way out of disaster.]

  Russia says relations with US 'on edge of open armed conflict' (aa.com.tr)
  

  [The relations between Moscow and Washington are on the edge of an open armed conflict, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov has said.
  

  "We are working to keep relations with the US from falling into the abyss of an open armed conflict, we are already on the verge, on the edge of this abyss," Ryabkov said on Thursday night in an interview with Russian Pervy TV channel.]

  World Is Walking Into WW3 With "Eyes Wide Open" - UN Chief Tells General Assembly | ZeroHedge
  

  [World Is Walking Into WW3 With "Eyes Wide Open" - UN Chief Tells General Assembly
  

  United Nations Secretary General Antonio Guterres warned on Monday in a speech delivered before the 193-member UN General Assembly that the world is headed toward a "wider war" in Ukraine due to the ever-increasing risk of escalation.

  "The prospects for peace keep diminishing," Guterres said. "The chances of further escalation and bloodshed keep growing." He then sounded the alarm that "I fear the world is not sleepwalking into a wider war. I fear it is doing so with its eyes wide open."]

  __________

  [Dan 2:41 And whereas you beheld the feet and the toes to be partly of molded clay of a potter and partly of iron,+the kingdom itself will prove to be divided,+but somewhat of the hardness of iron will prove to be in it, forasmuch as you beheld the iron mixed with moist clay.+42 And as for the toes of the feet being partly of iron and partly of molded clay, the kingdom will partly prove to be strong and will partly prove to be fragile. 43 Whereas you beheld iron mixed with moist clay, they will come to be mixed with the offspring of mankind; but they will not prove to be sticking together, this one to that one, just as iron is not mixing with molded clay.]
  

  [Rev 13:3 And I saw one of its heads as though slaughtered to death, but its death-stroke+ got healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration.]

  [Revelation 17:8 The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss...11 And the wild beast that was but is not,+ it is also an eighth king,]

  [6-15-12 WT – Any power it (U.N.) has comes from its member nations, especially from its key backer, the Anglo-American World Power. (Rev. 17:10, 11) But it does receive authority to act as a king to carry out a specific task, one that triggers a chain of events that will change history.]
  

  [Daniel 8:23 “And in the final part of their kingdom, as the transgressors act to a completion, there will stand up a king fierce in countenance and understanding ambiguous sayings. 24 And his power must become mighty, but not by his own power.]
  

  [Revelation 13:5 And a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies was given it , and authority to act forty-two months was given it. 6 And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme his name and his residence, even those residing in heaven. 7 And there was granted it to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and authority was given it over every tribe and people and tongue and nation]

  Bush Sr. New World Order Speech (rare) - YouTube
• 

  Jeffro

  Good grief. 🤦‍♂️ It’s funny how the people who claim to respect the Bible the most pay the least attention to the actual intent of the authors, including the historical and cultural context at the time of writing.

  Instead, they are desperate for it to have some ‘hidden meaning’ for now and into the future. Whether it’s Jorden and his UN conspiracy (and no, that doesn’t mean I think the UN and governments are made of rainbows and puppies), or ‘scholar’ and Fisherman’s Adventist end-times beliefs.

  They either pepper quotations of scripture with interpolations of what the passages ‘really’ mean (e.g., ‘[UN]’), or refuse to quote the evasive scriptures that supposedly support their views (e.g., ‘70 years of exile’).

  It makes people feel good to think they have ‘insider’ knowledge that only their special group can ‘discern’ from abstruse passages of ancient texts, but it remains a fantasy.
• 

  Jeffro

  ‘scholar’:

  Which of the two 'word salads' is the better? The said scholar' or Geoffreys'?

  It’s hard to say which was ‘better’. Your wordy gibberish wasn’t overtly dishonest like Jackson’s, so that’s something I guess. But you’re very frequently dishonest on this forum, so don’t think you’re in the lead or anything.
• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  Liar. The Bible never mentions 70 years of exile. That is why you always defer to these stupid 'summaries' of JW belief instead.

  --

  False, the Bible most certainly describes the 70 years as a period of Exile or 'the Exile'. Why not use a concordance and examine the frequency and occurrence of the word' exile in the OT?

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  Fallacy of division.

  --

  Whilst we are about using terms of logic how iis that you as a sceptic can pontificate on matters and subjects that you do not believe eg. the' 70 Years of Jeremiah' etc.

  ---

  I've given them due attention. The '42 months' ended nearly 1,953 years ago, so it's not a cause for concern. Similarly, the events symbolised by the 'woes' and 'trumpets' relate to the period of early Christianity (representing a combination of various real and imagined events), and are no cause for concern, despite the claims of conspiracy theorists, crackpots and fear-mongerers.

  --

  How can you give attention to a matter whereupon you have no belief and expect to be taken seriously? The fact is that the 42 months applies in context to the 'Lord's Day' which began in august year of 1914 CE followed by the woes and the trumpets.

  scholar JW
  
  
  
  
• 

  Jorden

  Even if such a war were to break out, it would not be evidence of God, or that it happened specifically because of ‘prophecies’, though it is plausible that people in positions of authority could deliberately try to influence events to ‘fulfil’ it.

  There is no basis for your assertions that any of the verses refer to the UN or to anything happening now.

  Funny how you didn't answer my questions and also you don't understand replies to your own statements. You said above that there was no basis for verses to refer to the UN and you thought is was 'plausible that people in positions of authority could deliberately try to influence events to ‘fulfil’ it.'
  

  I cited the Scriptures to show the basis. And for you to think it was plausible for them to deliberately do something in order to fulfill a prophecy, there would have to be 'prophecies' that they have deliberately decided to try to claim to fulfill, if that was the case, right?

  But regardless, I said throw the Bible out when answering my questions and just answer based on real people, real statements, real times that we are living.

  Let's try this again:
  

  
  

  Jorden and his UN conspiracy

  
  

  Stop trying to scare people with nonsense.

  LOL! What about what I have shown would cause you to use that wording, 'scare people'?

  What about what I have shown do you think is 'nonsense'?

  Is it the Scriptures or the video clips?

  If it is the Scriptures that are 'nonsense', then let's throw them out, throw out the whole Bible. It's a fake made-up book anyway, right.

  OKAY DONE...it's out.

  Now what about the UN organization, is it 'real', does it 'exist', is there 'proof' of it, was it really created in 1945 AFTER WW2?

  Are Ted, George, and Walter 'real' people? Are they speaking the 'truth' in stating what they did in those clips where they tell what purpose the UN was founded and what the goal is for it to be someday?

  Is it true that the way the current UN that exist in NY is made up of many different nations?

  We threw out the Bible, so no need to refer to John and Daniel, fake people.

  What about Ted, George and Walter and what they say...do you think that if there is a 3rd world war that during that time that that event/circumstance will be used to then make the UN become the entity that it was created for AFTER WW2 and has been working toward being since that time?

  And don't mention anything in your answers about God, Bible, proof, etc... cause we threw that out.
• 

  Jeffro

  Yeah, bored now.

  (The conspiracy theorist now seeks to ‘normalise’ the conspiracy by temporarily leaving out the religious superstition, to be roped back in later if one chooses to go down the rabbit hole.)