JWs have more good points than bad

by lsw1961 183 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • bsmart

    It is interesting that you think something at odds with JW teaches and keep quiet about it there are no repercussion. Eventually this will become an issue with them. You will send your child to college, have that blood transfusion or they interfere with your family life.

    We all have family or friends in the delusion, and would love to be able to talk with them freely about anything. It can't happen.

    There are several similar religions ( Amish, Islam; and Scientology; their teachings are so different but just as damaging to the membership.) Islam will "take care" of the dissenter personally. JWs will just treat you as if you are dead,

  • Diogenesister
    ISW 1961

    If I was your fairy godmother I would wish you to do a course in western Philosophy- I can see you have a philosophical turn of mind and I think you would LOVE it. It would help you to clarify your ideas and enable you to sharpen your critical thinking skills.

    Cannot recommend it enough!😊

  • tim3l0rd


    I think you are one of the more level-headed JWs. I include my parents (to some degree) in that group. I am still a JW, but am wrestling with how to continue. I have seen many atrocities over the years. I have seen many many changes in doctrine. What I can't get past is two things. How can I stay when the current doctrines make no sense and I'm not allowed to express any disagreement with those doctrines? It isn't mentally healthy. Secondly, how can I teach to others doctrines that I don't agree with and are probably false? As an example the generation doctrine that I brought to my RVs and studies from the 80s to 95 and from 95 - 08 were false doctrines by our current understanding.

    Interestingly, I mentioned the above, but stated it differently, in my first post to you and you ignored it. Instead you replied to my rebuttal of your analogy of us being like an ex-husband.

    My analogy:

    You ask why many of us don't just go away. Part of it has to do with how we are treated as ex-JWs. The organization doesn't leave us alone. We are cast as "mentally diseased" and our friends and family are told not to associate with us. Many of us don't even want to discuss religion with our families. We'd just like to have a normal family relationship. Unfortunately, the WT org makes that impossible as there is no way to leave the org and not lose family and/or friends. So comparing us attacking the org to an ex-husband monitoring and attacking his wife is only a proper analogy if the wife was unfairly keeping the kids from her ex-husband and lying to them and to the authorities to keep the kids away. In that case it would be proper for the ex-husband to monitor his wife and use whatever legal means necessary to get his kids back. That is how we feel and why we continue to "attack" the org.

    Your response:

    You have a point that can strengthen my analogy. When children are choosing to stay with mother and consider the dad as one who has gone astray, dad is wasting time monitoring his ex-wife.

    The question comes down to why are the children choosing to stay with the mother? You say that they consider the dad as one who has gone astray, but why? Did the dad really go astray? I haven't gone astray. I haven't done one immoral thing by bible standards, yet if I let on to my family or friends that I disagree with a teaching I am now to be shunned. Understand that in your example it's the mother (the org) that is telling the children (all JWs) that dad (us) has gone astray. The children are not allowed to make up their own mind. They are told that if they listen to us then they will become like us, so they don't hear our side. Not only that but even if we don't care to pull them away from their mother (the org) she's telling them that they cannot even speak to us. It is mother who is enforcing the shunning by telling the children that it's the right, loving, and faithful (to god, but really to the org) thing to do.

  • OnTheWayOut

    You addressed me specifically (with others) so I will answer the further comments on this one point:

    It seems many could not digest the equal pay (practiced in Bethel) as a good thing—some even called it communism.

    I am not against the practical application of communism. If the guy in the kitchen makes the same as the Governing Body member, great. But you can send the guy in the kitchen to give an assembly speech in Honolulu just as often and let him stay in a 4-star hotel just as often in order for it to be proper and equal. I didn't even comment on the inequality at Bethel. My comments were really geared toward the guy who gave up everything to pioneer straight out of high school until he went to Bethel for 30 years with no chance to save up for his future, then was given the pink slip. In proper communism, you would have to keep giving benefits to the older folks.
    This Bethel style of communism is likened to the fictional scenario that Cuba puts all it's over 50-year-olds on a raft and tells them "I wish you well in finding someone else to care for you, or as shark bait."

    In fact, this aspect as the good point is from a bethelite who has a glorious past career as a Prime Minister of a country. He was brought to the Bethel as his wife had an exceptional talent Bethel was in badly need of. They agreed to serve in Bethel without taking any pay (what they call monthly allowance or PEA) as they were materially very rich. Once I got a chance to work with him closely during a District Convention, and I invited the couple to my house for a meal which they gladly accepted. When I asked him what he liked the most in Bethel, he said “the equal pay.” Remember, he has multiple Doctorate in subjects such as Political Science, Economics .. and is an ex-PM.

    You choose an antitype as your example. Someone who has money can leave Bethel at any time with no problem. Or, if he were asked to leave, he would have no money problems. That's just not the case for Johnny Bethelite when he's kicked out.

  • sparky1

    Don't forget the 'green handshakes' that the average Bethelite never sees.

    (That could be either a good point or a bad point depending on whether you are on the receiving end or not)

  • Vidiot

    JWs may indeed have more good points than bad...


    ...but I think a pretty strong case could be made that the WTS has for more bad points than good.

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    "....all other JW teachings are unimportant..." - try telling that to any appointed man in your K.H. and see how quickly you'll be treated as an apostate and subjected to shunning!

  • Finkelstein
    lsw1961 Unfortunately hasn't realized that the JWS do nothing to support God's will and purpose, the WTS. has in contrary been quite disrespectful and disobedient to god if you read the bible.
    Most of that corruption has come in effect from the organization inherent endeavors to proliferate the literature it produces, they support the Watchtower Corporation's will and purpose, from there you can identify its corruption and deceit, no matter how many times the leaders of this organization say " We are the chosen ones" the faithful and discrete slave.
    They are really enslaved to this indulgently coorrpt publishing house and live to support it as its devoted subservient slave.

  • 3rdgen

    ISW1961 I am curious if you think that your appointment as elder was by Holy Spirit? If so, how exactly? I ask this because you have stated that you don't approve of all of Watchtower's teachings and policies but keep your mouth shut about it. Smart.

    I have several relatives who are elders doing the same as you- enjoying the privileges and status of their "positions" secretly holding different views than the WTBTS. They have the comfort of maintaining relationships with friends and family as well as the the social benefits of their tight inner circle who also secretly discard many of the "details" of the religion. It just so happens that they are successful businessmen who are enjoying good health, live in multi million $ homes, are able to travel the world, and have supplied their children with businesses they will inherit.

    If a JW like you is able to "fake it" there is no motivation to leave. This site however, is mostly comprised of those whose consciences won't allow them to live this way. They feel morally compelled to live truthfully and authentically despite the consequences.

    I conclude by asking a follow up question: Why would Holy Spirit appoint a brother who is not a true believer?

  • Finkelstein

    How can anyone out rightly say the JWS have quantitatively good behavioral social morality when they offer up their own children's lives as martyrs, over a wrongly theological devised no blood doctrine ?

    The WTS has used fear mongering false doctrines to lure people to their organization where they can be exploited and manipulated to support the operation of this religious publishing house.

    Add in the breaking apart of millions of families over the duration of its operation.

    The indirect instating the suicide of hundreds of people due its shunning DFing doctrinal policy.

    So lets once again reevaluate all the good points of JWS as an socially active defined organization. ???

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