JWs have more good points than bad..
Hmm nice try but..
1 Corinthians 5:6:
'Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough?'
Their own Bible condemns them and the OP's statement.
JWs have more good points than bad
by lsw1961 183 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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GodZoo
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Illuminated
So in other words, what I'm hearing you say is no matter how large/deep/bloody and infected with bacteria the wound is, it doesn't matter as long as you slap a smiley band aid onto it even though the blood and bacteria is gushing from all ends and pretend the wound isn't there?
Any organization that protects and covers up pedophiles while a child has and is being raped is automatically poison. Who cares about the shiny surface if the core is dark. Watch the Australian Royal Commission for starters.
As for all the other points, release yourself from the WT cage. Branch out into life and you'll see all the points you mentioned and so much more in so many other aspects of life, except they don't include the poison.
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GrreatTeacher
Welcome, lsw.
Firstly, I must congratulate you on your excellent spelling grammar. Unfortunately, many of the JWs that post here have atrocious spelling and grammar, so it was refreshing to read your very easy to read post.
Secondly, you were able to support your thesis that 'the good outweighs the bad' with many supporting arguments. I'm not saying that I agree with them, but you show you know that just spouting platitudes with no attempt to justify them is useless.
Thirdly, you did not post and run! This is something so many JWs do and it is so frustrating. This community is willing to embrace newcomers and have great, intellectual conversations. But, we can't do it one-sided.
So, I extend my welcome again and look forward to your contributions.
My question for you is this: how much leaven will you tolerate in a loaf before you decide it is no longer acceptable?
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never a jw
isw1961
Welcome to the forum. However, don't stay too long if you want to hold on to your current beliefs, and more particularly, to the title of your opening piece. This is a place that opens minds. Definitely not a good place for people who rely on faith; more often than not they lose it.
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Faithful Witness
lsw1961 : Thanks for taking the time to compose and share your thoughts about the "good points" of the Watchtower organization. It's nice to see someone who seems happy and content with the life they choose to lead. Congratulations on your decision to turn your life around, and walk away from the destructive behaviors and thinking of your past. You don't have to justify your beliefs to anyone. I commend you for being bold enough to state your case.There are a lot of people here who have been deeply hurt by the policies and misguided teachings of the Watchtower organization. I appreciate that you take the time to consider the reactions to your claims, and even to give response. I hope you will consider responding to mine.
I've never been a JW myself, but do try to keep up, as I have family members who no longer communicate with me because of their dedication to this organization.
I have many thoughts about your comments, but one stands out to me.
I wondered if you believe that an individual is allowed to consider BOTH sides of a story.
Does an individual have the freedom of expression and beliefs, if they want to be a JW in good standing?
For example, you said:
4) Numerous legal victories in favor of freedom of expression and beliefs have helped even non-JWs also.
Have you read the multiple stories of the legal battles the Watchtower has lost in recent years, because of their policies regarding known child sexual abusers who serve and preach? There have been very prominent cases in Europe, US, Australia.
The Watchtower does NOT, in fact, favor freedom of expression and beliefs...
(you shared an example, when you had questions, and you were not given a satisfactory explanation... and you decided to put aside your freedom of expression, in favor of faith in a society that makes some very grand claims about themselves).
When I was a bible student, it was presented to me as the Truth, absolutely. I had to believe it all, and was not allowed to pick which parts of their teachings applied to me.
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never a jw
isw1961,
Many of the seemingly good points that you raise can be applied to most christian religions. The bad points, however, are quite notorious and particular to JW's and few other groups that most people don't even consider religions, but cults.
Ultimately, the religion of JW's is good for the senile, the depressed, the illiterate,and everyone who can only find happiness on fairy tales and lies. Unfortunately these people could not keep the religion financially viable. The rest of JW's are better off out of the religion, even though they may not know it yet.
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azor
ISW - many of the points you make are directly from GB approved material. Any entity or group has good they can highlight. Truth however withstands the tests of critical fire. If you have truth it has nothing to fear from examination from outside sources.
This forum is full of ex jws at differing phases in their life. Try putting yourself in one of our shoes for a moment as it is to easy to pass something off as it doesn't happen because it hasn't happened to you or someone you know. Imagine your child being abused and having it brushed under the rug, or losing your child because you didn't give them a blood transfusion. The latter almost happened to me if it hadn't been for the courts. I was going along just fine I thought. An elder, wt. conducter, ex-bethelite, parts on conventions and assemblies. Then bang my son gets leukemia and the next thing you know I'm in the hospital with hlc fighting the hospital over a blood transfusion that would save his life. Thankfully they gave it to him and 3 years later almost done with treatment and a 90% remission rate.
Please continue your journey as people's lives are at stake and not just your own if you have children or grandchildren. I believe this site is better after you have done some initial research. I recommend going to YouTube and typing in "Only In Christ" start with the Gods Channel series as it lays out the history you are likely unaware of as a JW because it is not from the GB. Next listen to the audio of Crisis of Conscious by Ray Franz ex GB member. There is no vitriol in his tone as proclaimed of so called apostates. You can download his book as well. I would then recommend going to jwfacts.com. Then come back here with some real knowledge, not what's been spoon fed to you by wt.
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GodZoo
1) Many who were on the destructive path have been transformed by their teachings (this includes me who was once vicious, and presumptuous and atheistic)
Nothing special there.. any cult can achieve similar.
Jail does the same thing for many..
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LoveUniHateExams
Isw1961 - welcome to the forum.
I notice you've not mentioned the paedophile issue in your OP. You're aware that the 'two witness' rule gives JW paedophiles, and possibly 'worldly' paedophiles, good cover for abusing innocent children. Please check out the Australian Royal Commission into Child Abuse website. This commission was set up to look into how different institutions - the Watchtower Society, the Catholic Church - deal with child abuse and allegations of child abuse.
I agree that critical appraisal is essential - determining good points and bad points and seeing if we should either accept or reject. Are you willing to do this with regard to the Watchtower Society?
You've joined this forum so that's a good first step.
At the same time I admit that they also have their weak side - please expand on this.
Thank you.
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Faithful Witness
One other point that continues to confuse me, and even you seem conflicted about it: individual vs. organization.
You say:
Hence discreet ones will take benefit from their good points and ignore the rest. Because judgment is on individuals (not on the organizations, religions, nations ... etc)—Mathew 25:31-46.
But later, you say:
However, asserting implies trying to prove that individual is more important than the organization, hence such individual should be shown the exit so that he can enjoy life outside the boundary!
This particular part of your story is interesting to me. Are you allowed freedom of expression and belief?
When I found certain things confusing, I brought to the attention of the higher-ups who, in turn, told me to wait for Jehovah.
Who is the author of confusion?
Genesis 3:4
At this the serpent said to the woman: “YOU positively will not die."I also noticed that you referenced this parable from Matthew, to illustrate that an individual's actions will be judged.
Are JW's serving God, or are they serving the advancement of their own organization? They seem so intent on proving that they are right, and vindication... yet, they ignore these instructions from Jesus Christ himself:
Matthew 25:31-46 (NWT 2013)
Q. Was Jesus telling them to PREACH to the poor, the hungry and the homeless? Or was he talking about actual food?
31 “When the Son of man+ comes in his glory, and all the angels with him,+ then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep+ on his right hand, but the goats on his left.+ 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably;+ 36 naked* and you clothed me.+ I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’+ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?+ 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’+ 41 “Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me,+ you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire+ prepared for the Devil and his angels.+ 42 For I became hungry, but you gave me nothing to eat; and I was thirsty, but you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger, but you did not receive me hospitably; naked, but you did not clothe me; sick and in prison, but you did not look after me.’ 44 Then they too will answer with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying: ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’+ 46 These will depart into everlasting cutting-off,*+ but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”+