JWs have more good points than bad

by lsw1961 183 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Finkelstein

    Its too bad JWS don't have compassionate respect for what the bible says particularly concerning false prophets in the form of Charlatans promoting their own literature.

    Making a vow of devotion toward this man made endeavor might actually cost them their lives one day.

    I think your level headed individual lsw1961 and that you may have come here to rationalize for yourself the doctrines the WTS has created, which you are expected to uphold without dissension.

    We don't learn and intellectually mature if we don't investigate and use are own cognitive intelligence to rationalize what is fact and what is fiction., we are only human after all.

    Humanity cant improve its own living experience if we place a box over are heads and say the gods will take care of things on are behalf, history has shown that in doing so was futility detrimental and unproductive.

    Retrospectively are intelligence is the only thing we've got to improve are own existence, its matter of seeking knowledge and have unrestrained inquiry to all that exists, including about are selves.

  • Jeffro


    This is the benefit of being a JW. We have the guts to call a spade spade. You would notice from my post that I am still able to discriminate between the good and the bad in JWs.

    So... from your 'totally unbiased' sample size of 'you', you've decided that all JWs are objective. Brilliant logic. Well done.

  • Jeffro

    1) Many who were on the destructive path have been transformed by their teachings (this includes me who was once vicious, and presumptuous and atheistic)

    So being 'atheistic' is on par with being 'vicious'. You, sir, are an idiot.

    2) Equal monthly pay to all members of the Bethel community regardless of whether they are BC members or sweepers. This is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world. But JWs have successfully done it in all their Offices throughout the world for over a century. This is no insignificant accomplishment as this has the potential to solve virtually all the problems of the world.

    The same pittance (a stipend, not a salary) for all the duped 'volunteers' and no retirement benefits is in no way a good thing. Undue influence by high-control groups is one of the problems in the world that definitely won't be solved by this.

    3) The way they start their day with discussing a spiritual thoughts (Daily Text) puts the members in a good and positive frame of mind empowering them to deal with the challenges of the day ahead. They way they are being trained to talk to objection-raisers and conversation-stoppers gives them good speech mannerism in all avenues of life.

    Hasty generalisation. Most JWs are terrible at explaining their beliefs without a JW publication in their hand. Many are woeful at using just the Bible. This was the case even during their heyday of detailed doctrinal articles, and now the literature is dumbed down so much, the magazines are barely more than pamphlets. JWs are (and always have been) hopeless at dealing with the gaping holes in their 1914 dogma when the scriptures are actually analysed closely (rather than simply leaving out the problems or outright lying in JW publications). And the section on what to say when someone says "I'm a Muslim" was deleted altogether in later printings of the 'Reasoning' book.

    4) Numerous legal victories in favor of freedom of expression and beliefs have helped even non-JWs also.

    As much as there has been some benefit from some of those cases (mostly in the US), they are tainted by hypocrisy. The Watch Tower Society has also fought cases for the right of organisationally imposed shunning (despite their claim that "No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family", g 7/09 p. 29) as well as spending literally millions of dollars paying out cases of child sexual abuse made possible by deficient policies for dealing with child abuse internally.

    5) They effectively invited the attention of the world into the thinking that evolution theory is just a theory believed out of convenience rather than conviction [if it were a principle, all scientists would have unanimously accepted it) and restored many biblical truths which Christendom had obscured (prominent among them is the superiority of Father —at a time when the son was viewed as more prominent than the Father, it was JWs who turned the attention of the world to the normal that The Father is highest of all and son is second in power. Such restorations have the potential to make adherents responsible-minded and good citizens! To accomplish such extra-ordinary things on a global scale, extra-ordinary courage is required.

    Firstly, you've just demonstrated that you have no understanding of what constitutes a scientific 'theory'. Secondly, it is extraordinarily naive to believe that JWs have "effectively invited the attention of the world" to this 'issue' (or to any other, really, since most people know little or nothing of JWs). Other fundamentalists (such as the bombastically stupid 'Answers in Genesis' and other nutters) have done far more than JWs have done to try to convince the uneducated masses that evolution is not a reality.

    Similarly, there are various 'restorationist' Christian denominations, several of them springing from the same (pre-Russell) Adventist origins as JWs. There is very little that is actually unique about JW beliefs. The doctrinal oddities that 'distinguish' JWs from mainstream Christianity (such as their nontrinitarianism) have nothing at all to do with 'making adherents responsible-minded and good citizens'. And the Seventh-Day Adventist church has more than double the membership of JWs.

    List can go on and on. At the same time I admit that they also have their weak side which arose unwittingly out of good-intention. Even Apostle Paul taught (in 1 Cor 10:11) that the kingdom would come in the first century. Such false teaching did not make believers evil citizens of their respective countries; on the contrary it made them more spiritual preparing themselves to meet the Lord! The Lord did not come, so what? People did become more spiritual, more humane just as students who prepare for examination too early do not lose anything! Hence discreet ones will take benefit from their good points and ignore the rest. Because judgment is on individuals (not on the organizations, religions, nations ... etc)—Mathew 25:31-46.

    Funny how 'early Christians' (with the implication that this extends to JWs) believing "false teaching did not make believers evil citizens", yet people of other religious are supposedly deserving of death because they accept "false teachings".

    However, ignoring all the good points of JWs and lashing them indiscriminately helps no one. Many in this forum lament about disfellowshiping and shunning policy of JWs. Of course I do refrain from shunning which I personally consider as wrong. But people choose to become JWs knowing very well about the above policy! Every organization (and even Governments) will have their own terms and conditions designed to protect their interest, and it is natural that anyone who tries to undermine them has to be disfellowshipped or should attract something similar (as Edward Snowdenrightly expects from the US Government). Such measures are not only right, but also a loving act as this is in the best interest of the majority of the law-abiding members of the organization/Governments. Anyone can have disagreements . When I found certain things confusing, I brought to the attention of the higher-ups who, in turn, told me to wait for Jehovah. I left it at that, and am still in the organization. You may accuse me of trying to be part of a herd which is comforting. If I had asserted, I would have been disfellowshipped and organization would still continue as it was before, thus asserting accomplishes nothing. However, asserting implies trying to prove that individual is more important than the organization, hence such individual should be shown the exit so that he can enjoy life outside the boundary!

    You defend shunning, claim that you don't shun, and then try to defend shunning again. This is called cognitive dissonance. And equating the rejection of fundamentalists religious beliefs (refer to quote from Awake! earlier) with leaking national secrets is just plain stupid.

    Your statement that "asserting accomplishes nothing" is a pitiful sentiment, suggesting a broken will. Again, the cognitivie dissonance is loud and clear. A paragraph after saying that "judgment is on individuals" and that "discreet ones" will take the "good points and ignore the rest", you say it would be wrong to try to "prove that individual is more important than the organization". I hope that you come to recognise the gaping contradictions in your perspective.

    In your case, you are not enjoying your lives even after coming out of JWs as you are still worrying about what JWs are doing and attacking them relentlessly (just like a divorced husband, who passionately monitors his former wife and attacks her with no let up). What did those who declared: “we should kill Lazarus also” gain? (John 12:10) You can easily dismiss Lazarus episode as fictional. Yet history has enough examples of attacking the good just because they are good.

    You seem to have a distorted perception of former JWs, as if they're comic-book villains who are just 'bad for the sake of being bad'. It's an extremely naive delusion. And who are you to tell others whether or not they are happy?!

  • 3rdgen

    ISW, Leaving JWs is similar to a divorce. I know because I have done both. Married 30 years and almost 60 as a born in JW.

    There is a process of grief that comes with both. At the end comes acceptance. After acceptance comes real happiness. If circumstances don't allow for happiness at least there is the peace of mind that comes from a clear conscience and freedom of mind.

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