Satanic Ritual Abuse

by Big Tex 88 Replies latest members private

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  Big Tex

  (((eisenstein)))

  Bless your heart. I hear it in your words. Are you okay? It does get better.

  Demon attacks? Not today. But 35 years ago, I remember a feeling in the house. Oppressive, cold spots, shadows that moved. What I remember most is the look in the adults' eyes. Wide, creepy, (kind of similar to the character of Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs), to this day I have trouble looking someone in the eye. Maybe that's why people thought I was lying. It's funny, but I believe in demons more than I believe in angels.

  Thanks czar.

  waiting

  I know how hard it was for you to come into this thread. That took guts. I see that tenacious survivor in you now, and I like her. Just know I did not expect you to post. But I did think this borders on briliance. It captures so much of what it's like:

  I don't know totally what's true, what's not. I think only survivors tear their past life apart trying to figure out "did this happen?" And then try to pinpoint every minute of every event. If they're not crazy before............they could be crazy after doing that for years.

  I think most of us will never know all the details. Btw, how does one know if they know all the details? We only know what we (or someone else) remembers.

  I think we will never know all the details. There's a part of me, just for intellectual curiousity, that would like to know. But I can feel it deep inside, that I know all I can. After all, how much do non-abused people remember of their life from ages 2, 3 and 4? I know drugs were used on me, and that makes it even more difficult.

  At some point we have to let it go. Which is hard for someone like me. I feel the need to quantify every event so I put it in its proper place. Having something like an unsolved ritualistic memory hanging there, just feels untidy.
• 

  Big Tex

  Piph

  Thank you for your trust.

  Chris
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  rem

  Big Tex,

  Thanks, I think we are on the same page. My post was not meant to dismiss anyone's experience - it was just to point out an interesting fact about the nature of memory. I saw "repressed memory" and felt that a caution was in order because I had read research that had shown certain "repressed memory" therapy techniques to be quackery - even harmful. In retrospect, it probably wasn't such a good idea on such an emotionally charged topic.

  You seem to be changing your position. First you say there is no evidence of such activity, but when I provide some examples of convictions you switch to there is no evidence of a worldwide conspiracy of satanists.

  That was my position all along, though I probably didn't make it clear. I was just using SRA as an example, so I didn't feel the need to go into great detail at the time. I was just using shorthand to describe the many cases that were studied. To be fair, the cases you mentioned were RA, not necessarily SRA, and on top of that I admitted right away that isolated incidents of SRA are possible.

  I'm always intrigued though by why people feel the need to "caution" victims of abuse. Stories of false accusations and false memories are put forth so quickly and so easily.

  For me, it's just because this is a discussion board... so I thought it would add to the discussion. I wasn't intentionally targetting victims, though it seems I could have been more sensitive. In the future I will probably not bring this or any other controversial issue up on such emotionally charged topics. I think the reason why I felt 'safe' in doing it was because the thread was so old and it had progressed beyond a discussion of abuse, proper, but had become more about memory and how it works - at least from my perspective.

  Has that happened? Absolutely. But again, I submit you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Don't be guilty of dismissing a psychological behavior (repressed memories or stories of ritualistic abuse) simply because of unethical or incompentent psychologists and/or law enforcement.

  Exactly. That's the one part where I feel like I've been misrepresented. I've never claimed that repressed memories don't exist or ritualistic abuse doesn't exist, though I could have probably made myself more clear. I actually believe I am biased to believe children when they say things. I just keep things in the back of my head to try and balance that natural bias in the case of extraordinary claims.

  I sincerely apologize if I've upset anyone on this or the other thread. Some things are better left unsaid as they are inappropriate on certain threads.

  rem
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  shotgun

  Big Tex..

  I had re-occuring dreams as a teen...not the wet ones you pervs... but ones which I saw things very vividly in settings I had never experienced...

  I told my mother and she told me I was in the hospital for three months when I was only 18 to 24 months old...everything I related to her she said happened there....

  Its amazing what the mind retains at such a young age...why the hell can't I remember anything anymore?
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  Euphemism

  rem... I really appreciate your apology. I know this subject can be very hard to understand if you have neither been through it yourself nor are close to someone who has.

  I think, however, that part of the misunderstanding is that we have different things in mind here. Cruzanheart said that if a child of hers had repressed memories, she would validate her emotionally, endeavor to assist her through therapy, etc. The cases that rem was talking about, OTOH, were allegations made in a court of law. There's a major difference there.

  Piph has a book for survivors of RA called "Safe Passage to Healing." One of the things it says is that the survivor should not testify in court before their healing is completed, because the memories will not all be accurate. Two important points follow from that.

  1. When those of us on this thread are saying that RA survivors should be believed, that does not mean that every recovered memory should be immediately taken to the police for prosecution... or that any accusation should be made public at all. It is wise to wait, see if the memory changes or becomes stronger, and gather corroborating evidence. The point is that we shouldn't disbelieve the memory in the meantime.

  2. Because recovered memories may contain inaccuracies, some investigators may dismiss the entire memory as fictitious. I suspect that's what happened in the studies that Derek cited. But that's a fallacious conclusion. The nature of the memories is itself evidence that abuse occurred... whether or not it comforms to the memories in all details.

  Also, thanks to Lady Lee for explaining the difference in behavior between FMS and recovered memory. That was very enlightening!
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  waiting

  After the 80's started to die down, and people involved looked around - I remember reading this quote by a psychologist:

  If all this Satanic Ritual Abuse happened - it needs to be studied.

  If all this Satanic Ritual Abuse didn't happen - it needs to be studied.

  I think that era was unique with terrible wrongs done to victims and people who were innocent who became victims. Also, some therapists were just in over their heads and not trained, nor had the insight of this time period - not necessarily stupid or just trying to make money. Police were in the same situation. Religionists the same. It was a unique time period and one rage fed another and another and another.

  We've learned a lot since that time - and memory isn't nearly as cut & dried subject as we once thought.

  waiting

  ps - thanks tex.
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  Lady Lee

  very true waiting. There has been a tremendous amount of study on memory and on traumatic memory which are not the same.

  One thing the whole confusion did was force an examination of the two and what made them unique as well as theri reliability.

  We may never know the whole story. Any victim may never know their whole story either. But a therapist's job is not to validate or invalidate the details of the memory.

  And it doesn't help victims who insist on knowing all. Most have enough to deal with what they already know and minimize the long-term effects of what is in the present.

  Society can help by validating what is known and supporting the survivors.
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  Big Tex

  rem

  If it were just me, even on this topic, it would be no big deal. I figure if I've got the nerve to throw it out there for everyone to see, then I ought to have the kahones to stand up to opposite viewpoints. But I've been made aware that there are quite a lot of lurkers and posters reading threads like this who are in earlier stages of recovery and hear messages of denial badly. Lord knows I didn't want it to be true, and I really wanted everyone who told me I was wrong, to be correct. So it is with other victims, and sometimes harsh words are taken in by some vulnerable people.

  Honestly I don't have a problem with you, although reading my original post in this thread makes me wince. It's poorly written, highly subjective and overly emotional. I could have done much better job writing and exploring the topic, but your original post touched off a nerve and I reacted rather than cooled off. It reminded me of what the elders and my family said to me 15 years ago. That's not a criticism of you, more an observation that I'm not as far along in my recovery as I would like. I should be able to hear someone say something about false memories without making a big production of it.

  My apologies to you if my overreaction caused you any distress.
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  Big Tex

  Lady Lee said

  The FMS victims tend to come forward and want to sue. But the real victims stay silent out of fear. Hmmmm what does that tell you? FMS victims talk about it in gory detail to anyone who will listen. Real victims struggle mightily with memories and nightmares, imagery and symbolism, doodlings and odd occurrances that can never be explained. Real victims struggle to hide and live in fear of what will happen if they talk. Real victims struggle with the truth of what lies inside.

  I wanted to come back to this post Lee, as I thought it was very perceptive. I think it's a good first step to indicate the accuracy of the statement. Why does someone step forward with their story? What is their reason? I hadn't thought about it from this angle before, but you cut to the heart of the matter very well.

  I still struggle with what did (or didn't) happen, and there is no way I am interested in any lawsuit or (worse) publicity. And yet I can see where some could be. Make up a story and grab a quick buck. They might even enjoy the attention, whereas a real victim would not. There is so much shame surrounding it, as well as fear of reprisals or ridicult I can't imagine a real victim wanting attention.

  Have you ever read the book, "Unspeakable Acts"? It's the story of a home based day care that abused several children. There were ritual aspects to it that touched me when I read it 15 years ago. But what struck me was how a couple of well trained psychologists were able to get the truth out of the children, without leading them or putting words in their mouth. Very well done and it shows that the ability to get the truth is there, but it does require a trained and delicate approach.
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  Cassiline

  They say not knowing is a bad thing, sometimes there are places we should not go I have found. I have gone there ( not SRA related) and now wish at times I did not know the truth.

  (((((Cassi))))) I know how you feel. But our life experiences, good and bad, make us who we are. If we don't deal with the bad stuff there's always a chance that we will pass it on intact to the next generation. Big Tex has worked so very hard to get all of his "stuff" out and deal with it, not only for his peace of mind but so that none of that crap would be passed on to our kids.
  Cassi, you are a great asset to this board and that's partly because of what you have been through. You are a help to a great many people.
  Recovery gives us power over our abusers and hopefully to a small extent prevents further abuse.

  Nina

  Nina, thank you for your kind thoughts, I just wanted to which I am sure you and Tex already know; sometimes those memories can do more damage then good. However your insights about it being passed onto the next generation are priceless. For who are we if we can not learn from the past?

  I truly wish that those of you, who may feel this is a bunch of horse pucky, read the past. Know that what Lee says is true. Child molestation “did not” happen years ago to our past generations as they were too prudish or naive to believe it.

  Domestic violence did not happen, again our parents were too ashamed to speak of it or too dense to believe that it happened on a regular basis.

  We all can learn from our past before our future is decimated by those things that “never” happened.

  Cassi