Jayson;
Abba I don't know why you begin with the snive choir comment. I agree with most of what you say. If laws were enforced and the CIA, FBI, worked closer together maybe 9/11 could have been stopped. (your point right?)
I was saying that Yeru thinking the world changed on 9/11 is unrealistic. You know Aliens, where one of the Marines loses it and starts screaming how fucked up it is and that they are all going to die?
Well, the chain of events that lead to that was already in place. It was already fucked-up. They were (apart from Sigourney as she's a babe, and babes don't die in movies) all going to die already. They just didn't know it yet.
Thus it is with 9/11. That's when people realised how fucked-up it was. It already was fucked-up, but they hadn't noticed. The Republican Male Voice Choir is I fully admit sarcasm; I don't mention who its members are, they elect themselves by their harmonic response. There is equally a Pinko-Commie Brassband, so don't feel you're being singled-out.
Just as many Americans believe from their toes up that America is great, regardless of opposing argument, so to English people feel that sarcasm is right, regardless of opposing argument. Both attitudes probably get up other peoples noses sometimes.
Americans believe in the 9/11/Saddam connection. But, there is no proof, not as Bush sells it. At best if one wants to believe that then it is a moral connection. (whats that?) Al Capone was put in prison for tax evasion. Is that what the government was after him for? No. But I think that getting rid of him any way they can is great. Same with the war on Iraq. America did it there because it could. More people need to just say it.
And as we're discussing in that other thread, some people believe that the 'how' isn't important. Other people believe that the 'how' could possibly make things worse. We'll know who is right in five years time, and I doubt whoevers right will gain ANY satisfaction from being right.
Simon I would love to see the UK come back to individual rights as opposed to surrendering rights to the State.
Sorry Jayson; I feel more free in the UK than the USA. I can watch TV and see the Queen and leading politicians talked about in ways I have never seen American celebrities or politicains talked about on TV in America. I can have hair half-way down my back in a rural backwater and be accepted with a nod, rather than having a bunch of guys in CAT-hats watch me walk from car to cashier in a gas station as though I had two heads, or notice that I'm the only man with long hair in an entire shopping mall. I can go to an abortion clinic without having people spit at me, as those that would disagree with my actions tend to respect my own freedom to do it. I can even pretend that business influence doesn't play a major part in politics - something no American can credibly believe.
I know the UK is not perfect; most English people do. If you overhear a talk about Britain in a pub, you're more likely to hear complaints and criticisms than 'Gee, isn't the UK the greatest country on Earth' - and we're equally critical of our country (or I am) when talking about it to foreigners. I like the realisim. The love of a flawed thing and hope that it will get better.
Maybe we're just an island of born cynics; do you remember the first Superman movie? SUperman is on top of the Capitol Dome, replacing the flag, and he says 'I fight for truth, justice and the American way'. It always got a laugh in English cinemas as it's so pretentious.
It's like re-writing history so Enigma is recovered by Americans, or the Battle of Britain's tide is turned by an American pilot. If a country has to appropriate and alter bits of history to fit in with it's patriotism, something is a little out-of-whack.
Oh, and saying that the US is biased towards Israel is an observation, not anti-Zionism. If you changed the Israelis into Palestinians and vica-versa so that Arabs (with no real political lobby in the US) were doing to Israelis (with a big political lobby in the US) what we see being done each day on TV the other way round, the USA would have intervened years ago to 'free' the Israeli's from the Arab 'racist reigeme'. If you deny that, you've got a curious grip on reality.
