It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened 9824 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • pr0ner

    Lloyd's true value was going to be tied to him breaking into the mainstream. This has always been the missing piece for ex-jws. Having a good spokesperson who can represent the community and make waves in media. Because, for most of the world they just see JWs as some kooky religion and not the cult that it is.

    That is how he was positioning himself. As the go to personality. Sure he has helped JWs exit. That's all well and good but what works better is making sure doors are closed before someone can enter.

    This is the reason people clammored to work with him. This is the reason he had so many fans. He was getting exposure outside of the ex-jw community.

    He isn't Trump or Charlie Sheen or Bill Clinton who is beloved by millions already and therefore can drive through scandal.

    He'll never be that spokesman. Never. Because when you're becoming a spokesperson for a large diverse group you need to be relatable in general facets of life.

    This is why he will never ever reach Franz level. Every JW can relate to believing and rising through the ranks. They can relate to wanting a quiet life and having to live in a trailer.

    They can't relate to being chased off for adultery. Then going to see prostitutes every month and cheating on your wife. Only a very narrow segment of people globally can imagine themselves doing that.

  • pr0ner
    @Borgoff can you point to any campaign to get Lloyd's books delisted off shelf? You asked if CoC should be taken off shelf if Franz was accused of seeing prostitutes and commoting adultry. Of course not. However would as many people have bought it? What do you think JWs reaction would be if that info came out? Do you believe it would have no impact at all on readership?
  • pr0ner

    @Borgoff (if you're not gone) and others who agree with their statements please read this and really chew on it

    I understand the point you're trying to make. It's similar to Dave Chappelle's, "he rapes but he saves" routine he did around a superhero who can only save people while at the same time raping them. Does the good outweigh the bad? The great thing about not being in a cult is we each get to make that decision ourselves. You can support Lloyd all you want because you believe that the good he does outweighs the bad in his personal life. Where Lloyd completely lost the plot there and where many celebrities/activists do for me, is how they react after the scandal.

    Lloyd's reaction was not, "Sorry I did something bad and let a lot of people down". His reaction was, "I did nothing wrong. Fuck you its not your business". Not only that, but his target audience is vulnerable people who are trying to exit a cult whose entire attitude is, "we do no wrong, fuck you".

    The JWs make some amazing videos now. Really top-notch high-end stuff that helps people with their daily struggles. They have a great internal community. However, what drives most people away are the actions of leaders. Do you want to keep JWs around because they have genuinely helped hundreds of thousands of people? Or do you want them stopped because of actions that show a lack of compassion to those they hurt?

    That's the key for me here. He showed ZERO compassion to anyone he hurt. Including to his wife (outside of a claimed apology). Again I would argue its this lack of compassion that drives the majority of jws to leave the cult. They were molested and no one cared. An elder sinned and got away with it. They brought up a valid point and were told to shut up. That ALWAYS outweighs any good the WTBS did or will ever do.

    You can judge the WBTS for the actions their leaders do. You can claim the same judgment can't be made on Lloyd for the actions he does. You can say that the good outweighs the bad for Lloyd but not the WBTS. That's fine, but for me, it's just straight-up hypocrisy and there is some mental gymnastics you need to do for that logic.

    This isn't even getting to the issue of the impact Lloyd's actions had on sex abuse survivors and the hard work it erased that he was a part of.

  •  Debra

    Does Lloyd realise that IF his bullshit ever does make it to court and he cries "loss of money" which he intends to do. The judge would appoint a financial expert to look over his accounts which would clearly show how much money he does rake in every month and not only would the judge have the info but so would the M7 lawyers and bring it to the attention of the patrons who I'm sure would be following every word of the circus,

    so would the M7 lawyers and bring it to the attention of the patrons who I'm sure would be following every word of the circus,

    100% 🤦‍♀️

  • lloydevansparody
    Does Lloyd realise that IF his bullshit ever does make it to court and he cries "loss of money"

    Sorry to interject but on defamation litigations the correct form is "severe' loss of money. That simple word there makes a massive difference. And as you said, his finances would be scrutinized to the core.

  • pr0ner

    I would love to see this play out in court. He will never be able to prove damages. Even worse it would be shown that based on his subscribers who exited, it was his own words that made them leave not anything we (M7) said. That's if he could even prove anything we said was defamation. Again for his defenders reading this, defamation is a high bar. He has to prove lies were told knowingly with the express intent to damage his reputation.

  • TonusOH
    BORG OFF: Nicoloau if that was true of ray franz would you want Cof C taken off the shelf so no one can read it?

    I don't think people have been asking for Evans's book to be restricted or his videos taken down. We want people to know who and what he is so that they can make decisions about him with a full understanding of what they are getting into. If Ray Franz was anything like Evans, I would want to know that before offering to promote his work or support it financially.

    Helping people is great, and deserves some gratitude. Being a terrible husband and father is awful, and deserves some condemnation. Treating fellow exJWs like garbage is awful, and people should know about that if they are thinking about giving him money. None of that means that his book or videos need to disappear. Or that he needs to stop producing books or videos. But I think it's fair to temper the good with the bad, and in his case the bad is really, really bad.

  • nicolaou
    Nicoloau if that was true of ray franz would you want Cof C taken off the shelf so no one can read it?

    I'm not into book banning.

  • Las Malvinas son Argentinas
    Las Malvinas son Argentinas
    His reaction was, "I did nothing wrong. Fuck you its not your business"

    Now this has morphed into:

    "You are not supporting me enough. I still did nothing wrong, but my financial support has cratered due to no faults of my own and I am making less than half of what I did last year. If I don't regain at least 100 patrons, I'm going to have to reduce myself to doing two videos a month, sack Tibor and Dijana, and it's the fault of all these people who are still going on about what I said in my livestream. And you really need to get me back to 620 patrons if I am going to do anything other than produce videos in my studio. Tibor was hired at 620 patrons, so make your choices accordingly."

    Never show your cards, ESPECIALLY when you are losing so badly. And that's precisely what he did and now he expects people to pity him enough to throw him money. It wasn't sustainable and now he's in the same situation he found himself in back in January. People support winners, not losers. Giving money to a content creator who threatened to leave if donations don't recover is simply pity at this point, like giving a wounded street dog who needs to be put down a few morsels of meat.

    I would love to see this play out in court. He will never be able to prove damages

    I agree but I was careful in saying this out loud before as it's easy to say when my name is not on the litigation. A part of me actually wants this to go to trial. Can you imagine Lloyd on the stand giving testimony which is then contradicted in cross examination? And all the statements he's made on social media that he'd be forced to back away from on the stand and Lloydsplain it away.

    "Yes, I did say I'd fight for the next 40 years until I got a favourable verdict, but I meant it to be a figurative '40 years'. 40 years to me is not the literal 40 years you are all thinking"

    It's a logistical nightmare for the municipal Sisak court regarding the language barrier and arranging an interpreter for not only the M7, but Lloyd himself. Who pays? It's his lawsuit. Sorry, objection to the court interpreter being his wife and also a Director of Ipsilon Media.

    He'd fight tooth and nail against the discovery process when his financial documents are subpoenaed. He knows the same thing you do, that they will be leaked (or at least the information contained within) and he'll be exposed for earning some serious take home pay for 2020 - 2021. And he'd be giving bizarre reasonings to the judge when confronted about his failure to respond to discovery...

    "Your honour, these people have defamed and traumatised me, and the court forcing me into giving them my financial documents would be tantamount to the court joining in the defamation and harassment."

    He'll also get way ahead of himself and provide the judge suggested penalties and recompense. The totals would be insane...

    From Mike and Kim, I demand €700,000...

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