“White Privilege”

by minimus 131 Replies latest jw friends

  • TD
    TD

    MMM

    That doesn’t sound like “privilege”, it sounds like “preference”.

    When the preference is strong enough that it affects hiring decisions, whether you're even welcome in the restaurant at all, whether people think it's safe to have you living on the same street, the perceptions of a jury, etc. it does translate into an advantage, privilege, asset or whatever we want to call it.

    Do you honestly think that black people would not also express an “immediate acceptance” for other blacks?

    You're familiar with Washington DC, right? Why do you think a white boy like me couldn't get served in that particular restaurant?

    Would you call that “black privilege”? Don’t you think those blacks might share something more than skin color?

    People are people and they all have preferences. A great many people (apparently) don't seem to understand when the preference crosses the line into a prejudice.

    There was a recent article in Scientific American, authored by twelve medical professionals which explained how initial reports of George Floyd's autopsy misused medical terms to make the police appear less culpable.

    Look at how many people not only bought into it, but embellished it further, to the point where it morphed into the claim that Floyd was in a drug fueled rage which left the police no choice.

    I'm not saying this was necessarily racial prejudice, as there are people who will reflexively defend the police no matter what they do. But either way, it is still food for thought.

  • resolute Bandicoot
    resolute Bandicoot

    Please invest 27 minutes to get an understanding of the plague that is sinking America, without this knowledge not much that is currently going on will make any sense at all.

    https://youtu.be/L6l0JL6loXc

  • Terry
    Terry

    Cartoonist Scott Adams suggest making WHITE PRIVILEGE the N-word for White people and
    politely suggesting to people of color they refrain from using that term because it is equally offensive.

  • Terry
  • Simon
    Simon
    When the preference is strong enough that it affects hiring decisions

    That's only legal when people discriminate against whites

    whether you're even welcome in the restaurant at all

    When does that happen? Can you show me the business that decides they don't want money?

    whether people think it's safe to have you living on the same street

    People have the right to prioritize their own safety. You have to look at why the phenomenon of "white flight" exists before you judge it to be wrong and then come up with some way that you don't allow people to make personal choices to benefit their family.

    the perceptions of a jury, etc. it does translate into an advantage, privilege, asset or whatever we want to call it.

    I think it comes down to a general recognition by a group in the ultimate value to individuals of everyone complying with laws and rules. If society is law abiding, then everyone benefits, so there is more condemnation and judgement against it. It doesn't require a huge shift for people, pattern recognition machines, to notice and then make judgements based on that pattern.

    People are people and they all have preferences. A great many people (apparently) don't seem to understand when the preference crosses the line into a prejudice.

    For personal choices, you can be as prejudice as you want. It's how you protect yourself and your family. Maybe the guy in the alley-way with the meat cleaver is just a butcher on his way home from work and a really nice guy, maybe you wouldn't want to take that risk and make a prejudicial judgement on his character based on his outward appearance.

    Where it's wrong is when government and large institutions do it.

    There was a recent article in Scientific American, authored by twelve medical professionals which explained how initial reports of George Floyd's autopsy misused medical terms to make the police appear less culpable.

    In todays world, you can get 12 politicized people to tell you anything you want.

    Look at how many people not only bought into it, but embellished it further, to the point where it morphed into the claim that Floyd was in a drug fueled rage which left the police no choice.

    We still haven't seen the body cameras or other footage. Maybe they are being saved for trial, they may change people's view of what happened or they may reinforce them. Who knows until we've seen them - most things are just theories based on how people often behave when taking certain drugs.

    I'm not saying this was necessarily racial prejudice, as there are people who will reflexively defend the police no matter what they do. But either way, it is still food for thought.

    I would tend to defend the police, because there are way way more cases of the police doing and being right than there are situations like this. I've seen the "hands up don't shoot" story now so many times and it so often turns out to be BS. It doesn't mean there aren't cases where the police have done wrong. Some of these should result in prosecution, some are just the inevitable consequence of the law of averages when humans are involved in millions of interactions and mistakes are inevitable.

    A system that demands perfection will never get it and attempts at perfection will result in a possibly way worse system.

    Make policing too impossible and only fools will do it. Policing will then become worse.

    Make policing too impossible and it's effectiveness is undermined, so crime explodes.

    Some number of wrongful deaths are inevitable, but not every wrongful deaths equates to malice and intent.

  • Anna Marina
    Anna Marina

    Hi Resolute Bandicoot and Terry - look at Pam's video (about the fist sign) then go to 3:06 of Resolute's video on the Frankfurt School. The fist is is the same one but with different colouring.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYUwpxxnves&t=3s

    The idea of being forcibly shut up is like WTBS and it's concept of apostacy.

    They mention Freud in the video Resolute Bandicoot put up. Here's a bit of extra info:-

    Freud said to Einstein the greatest obstacle to the creation of a central organisation to secure peace lies in man's destructive instincts. Libido can be harnassed to counteract destructive instincts and bring about a superior class of independent and fearless intellectuals able to guide the masses into the path of reason.

    Freud would accept no criticism of his methods, even justified doubts. Once again how similar to WTBS.

    Thank you both for putting the link to that excellent video. It is very informative.

  • hybridous
    hybridous

    It can't be clearly defined, but you do know it when you see it.

    Is this not a 'God-of-the-gaps' argument? Poor logic.

    In fact, isn't the lack of clear definition for such an important concept...the whole darn point?


    It's an UN-falsifiable assertion. There's never enough evidence to rule it out. So when an accusation is leveled...the accused is automatically guilty.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_witch_trials



  • TD
    TD

    Simon

    I'm not debating what vestiges of the phenomenon still exist today.

    If you want examples of restaurants that didn't want your money if you were black as part of a general discussion I can give them because one actually went to the Supreme Court.

    But as I've said, social privilege (Or the lack thereof) is entirely dependent upon where you are and who you're around and the only person who can truly judge whether you've ever benefited from it personally is you yourself.

    The automatic assumption that a person is privileged because he or she is white is frankly very irritating.

    As far as Floyd is concerned, I'm not aware of anybody in any official capacity who maintains that Chauvin is blameless at this point.

    Regardless of whether the cause of death was "Cardiopulmonary Arrest Complicating Law Enforcement Subdual, Restraint, and Neck Compression" as Baker reported or "Asphyxiation From Sustained Pressure" as Wilson and Baden reported, the ultimate conclusion of both examinations was homicide.

  • TD
    TD
    Is this not a 'God-of-the-gaps' argument? Poor logic.

    ???

    "God of the gaps" is the assumption, usually by creationists, of a supernatural cause for that which science can't currently explain. I'm pretty good at formal logic, but don't follow yours.

    Perhaps instead of saying "You know it when you see it" I should have said, "You know it when you experience it."

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard

    @TD: Ok, still trying to narrow it down.

    We are starting to just list examples, but perhaps they might be helpful. You can already see the moves being made - you list an example, but counter examples immediately pop out. Statistics will soon be on the way.

    So initially you said that white people are defensive around the term “white privilege” because we just don’t quite understand it, or use the term correctly. And yet, it can’t really be defined - except with the “you know it when you experience” it argument. And so we have no choice but to attempt to enumerate example experiences to help ‘get the feeling’ of it.

    “Privilege” went to “preference” then to “extreme preference” to “prejudice”. I wonder, could it be heading toward a general “racism” at this point? And if that is the case, are you sure white people don’t understand what is implied by that term?

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