Honest Questions About Child Abuse

by Richard Oliver 207 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  Finkelstein

  That been said I have often wondered if the X-JW community is perhaps using this as a way of getting back at someone who has hurt them.

  Subjectively that might be true, but that's doesn't negate or defer the irresponsibility of the WTS intentionally hiding these crimes from the law authorities when its known that it is a grievous crime in most countries.
  

  The headship's tactic of influencing JWs who were possible victims to not contact the local law authorities, is another act of apathetic appeal to uphold the image of the organization over the protection of children within itself and outside toward the general public at large .
  
• 

  OUTLAW

  Just because people here feel that it is a waste of time to get new laws made because u feel that no matter what watchtower won't follow them. I think that if legislators make laws with teeth it would help.....RO

  Your:
  

  ..Still looking for ways not to blame the WBT for their self-inflicted pedophile problems.

  ..Discouraging people from taking the WBT$ to court..

  ..Discouraging people from suing the WBT$..

  You want laws,you just don`t want them applied to the WBT$..

  You think the WBT$ should get a "Pass" for Crimes against Children..

  It`s not going to happen..

  Welcome to the Real World..
  
• 

  DATA-DOG

  Richard Oliver,

  A CO gave an illustration that explained the difference between laws and principles. He made it clear that principles are always more important than laws. If we all followed the principle of showing love, laws would not be needed.

  The illustration goes like this: You're driving your car through a speed zone of 35 mph. You have the legal right to drive 35. You round the corner and see several children playing with a ball near the edge of the street.

  What do you do? Do you slow down? Do you say, " It's not my responsibility. It's the parents fault. They are responsible to keep their children away from dangerous situations." Do you keep your speed at 35 mph? What would your defense be if a child fell in front of your car?

  When the WTBTS decides not to report allegations of child abuse to the Superior Authorities, does this protect non-witness children? This is something that JWs rarely think about. When a child molestor is deal with "in house" by the Elders, and not reported to Law Enforcement officials, how can that be showing love to non-JWs/potential converts?

  As others have said, the WTBTS is concerned with saving face, not protecting the most vulnerable members of our society. Australia is just one country out of many where children are sexually abused by JW members, and most are not reported. Also, are you aware that the WTBTS has spent $4,000.00 USD per day, for several months, just to keep their pedophile data-base from the Superior Authorities?

  DD
• 

  Richard Oliver

  Outlaw. Do u really think that I believe that the lawsuits will just dry up because some new laws are passed. That is just crazy to think. My point is that we as a society of people should work with legislatures to pass laws to protect children.

  Also u think that the lawyers who are fighting for these children are all saints. I do believe that some do want to do the right thing, but also plenty do it because guess what a third of a bug settlement is a lot of money. Some lawyers just want to make the buck and don't care what happens to their clients in the long run. And if u think that all of them just want to do the right thing, you are kidding yourself.
• 

  Richard Oliver

  Data dog. I am not sure if I am not making my point. I understand the difference between a law and a principle and that is great for a moral code but it does not affect civil law. If something is immoral but not illegal doesn't mean the police can do anything.

  To illustrate let's look at how for a long time it was not illegal to hire young children in dangerous settings. Is it moral to put young children in dangerous working conditions, I don't think so. But let's say someone went to the cops and told them that an employer is endangering a child, what would u want the police to do. They can only enforce actual laws not moral laws. So in the same instance in countries with low age of consent what do u want police to do, if something is not against the law.
• 

  flipper

  Richard Oliver. It's not complicated. Of course you can make it complicated with debate tactics and statistics and all manner of word salad. And "facts".

  Child abuse is horrible. Any decent and honest organization or person would do all they could to protect children from this.

  Piss on the letter of the law excuses. This is a simple common sense issue. If the country you are in do not have laws to protect children, and there are no authorities to report to, then you work within your organization to rectify the problem. Yeah, can you picture the watchtower forming a charity to educate the public about preventing child abuse?

  It is such a waste of time to go back and forth trying to excuse the watchtower's reprehensible behavior. Their transgressions far outweigh any good they do - they are dangerous.

  We can vote on the issue but it is also effective to educate anyone who will listen about this problem in these innocent appearing organizations. Then they can vote also.

  Quit playing around like this is a debate. The emperor does not have new clothes.

  Mrs. Flipper
  
• 

  DATA-DOG

  What Mrs. Flipper said.

  So, for the record:

  1) You are a JW.

  2) You believe the WTBTS is at fault for not reporting sexual abuse allegations.

  3) You think that we need better laws to protect children; laws that the WTBTS should follow.

  Does that sound correct?

  DD
• 

  Incognito

  The title of this thread is regarding child abuse.

  A question asked in the OP is "Let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person. Why do you feel that Watchtower is responsible for that person's actions against the child?"

  In response, the WT would not be responsible for that person's actions. However, once the matter is reveled to Elders, even if not mandated by human law, there is a moral obligation to ensure the matter is reported to authorities, so an investigation may occur and the appropriate actions are applied.

  If the incident report stops with the elders or with WT, then they are each assuming liability for further abuses by that person, whether to the same child, other children within that and other congregations, or children in the world. By ensuring the allegation is reported, then it can be demonstrated that appropriate and reasonable actions were taken by the elders/congregation. If Child Protective Services or other appropriate agencies do not proceed to investigate, then the liability for non-action is on them.

  No mention of young persons who are deemed as having reached the lawful age of consent (ie: 14 in Austria), was made until RO's 4th posting.

  If a person has attained the lawful age of consent and has consented to a sexual relationship with someone older, that would then not be illegal or considered a child abuse situation. I am not aware of any child abuse actions against WT, where this is/was the situation.
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  cha ching

  As an example in the Conti case. Irwin Zalkin asked Kendrick's former wife and former step-daughter if she thought it was a privileged communication.

  Irwin Zalkin was not Candace Conti's lawyer, it was Rick Simons.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jrb6gNoj30
• 

  Richard Oliver

  Incognito. The reason I brought up low age of consent was that so many people think it that the law is clear cut that if something is impral or disgusting then it is there full unlawful. I was trying to highlight that the law is complete and as a society of people, we need to work with legislative bodies to protect children.

  Data dog. I feel that at times yes there are instances where certain actions by elders have endangered other children. Do I honestly believe that it is policy? Honestly I don't. But are there stupid people who have endangered children further. My point is that it is a complete issue that requires actual steps and not just expecting lawsuits to solve the problem.