Hi,
I thought I’d give you an update RE what’s going on.
My Q’ing the WTS of recent has been very hard on my wife. If I could, I would change my timing of doing so, but it’s just the way it has happened. Foremost, I’m concerned for my wife’s mental health because she has seen the doctor in the past for such concerns. This process was put on hold for a while without complete diagnosis because another health issue came up for her that made it impossible to diagnose the mental issue. After that issue passed, the residue effects from the second ‘health’ issue compounded the mental issues, and recently she has been seriously talking of suicide.
Now she has talked of suicide in the past every few months, and we dealt with it without professional help until it was mentioned as above because you never want to believe that your loved one suffers from such a disease. And the person themselves do not want to accept this possibility either. But recently she started talking of suicide again and it was different from her past talk and seriously concerned me. We are now seeking professional help because after some research it appears that without professional help there will be nothing but a tragic ending to this.
Of course my ‘dieing at Armageddon’ and ‘no longer loving Jehovah’ aren’t making this any easier on her. So after we had a couple of long talks my wife called the elders to arrange a meeting with her & I and two elders. I didn’t know she was doing this. She called me recently while at work and said that we were meeting in an hour, so can I make it to the meeting. I want to do everything I can to help her, so I said yes. But I had this nagging feeling deep down that I was about to be blindsided by the elders.
While driving there together, she asked what I was so nervous about. My ‘spidy’ senses were all tingling. This meeting had a bad smell to me. It was going to go bad I feared, really bad.
Once we got to the KH, we exchanged hellos, prayed, and got to business. After five minutes of the elders asking Q’s and my wife answering, the conversation quickly turned to focus on me. I was obviously the problem in their eyes.
So they started asking what issues I have. I gave vague answers that I had Q’s RE dates and such. What dates they would now ask.
Great. If I was here by myself, I could do a little dance and buy more time. But not with my wife here. She knows what issues I have and I can’t do a cordial dance with them. So I bring up the 607 BCE date and how it affects the 1914 date. I mention how 587 BCE isn’t even given a footnote mention in the last three books we studied, and that concerned me.
So here is how the conversation with elder ‘A’ went:
Me, “Well Jer 25: 11, 12 seems to indicate that maybe the 70 years ended when Babylon fell, not when the Jews were released.”
“So what?”
“Well, that would throw off the 1914 date by at least two years at least.”
“So what?”
“Well, if the 1914 date is wrong, then we have to at least be open to examine if the WTS was the chosen as the F&DS in 1914 .”
“And so…?”
“Well, if the WTS can’t even get the date correct that they were chosen by Jesus to be the F&DS, then that leaves a lot of other things open to Q also, doesn’t it?”
Elder ‘A’; “Even if they are wrong about that date, so what? What does it matter if the dates are wrong?”
“Well, if dates aren’t important, then why have we spent the last three books at our bookstudy discussing nothing but dates like 607 and 1914?”
Elder ‘A’, “Oh, I never said dates aren’t important, they are very important!”
Elder ‘A’ continuing, “But if the WTS is wrong about some of these dates, it doesn’t change everything else they teach to us as the truth does it? What other organization is he using? So what if they are wrong about some dates?”
Well, that was a loaded Q and I could see that this was going nowhere fast. So I turned things around and said that if they want to talk to me about doctrinal issues, these two elders can setup a separate time to meet with me to ask me these Q’s. Otherwise I was under the impression that we were here to help my wife. And we have just spent the last twenty minutes talking about nothing but my Q’s RE WTS doctrines.
Then they turned to my wife and started asking her Q’s. They went on saying that even without me in the Troof, she still has to rely on Jah. She has to do it by herself and forget that I’m no longer in the Troof.
After hearing this talk for a short while, I butted in;
“Um, excuse me. I’m still right here in the room. Why are you talking like I’m not even present and that I no longer love Jehovah and have left God?”
“Oh, we’re not. We are just addressing the concerns that your wife has.”
And right after that they then turn to the scripture about how unbelieving husbands can be won over without a word by a faithful wife’s conduct.
I think I may have literally heard my eyeballs hit the inside of my skull as I rolled my eyes back. Do these guys even hear a word I have said?
My wife discloses to them that she doesn’t want to live anymore and wants to kill herself. She repeats it numerous times phrased in different ways over the next five minutes.
The elders answer? She has to do more!
They now spend the next forty minutes telling her she has to do more. Study more, service more, meetings more, bible reading more. More, more, more! No words of comfort for a suicidal person. Rather, it’s all her fault and Jehovah will help her if she exercises enough faith in Jehovah.
I couldn’t take it anymore. We have been here for over an hour now and they have listened to nothing we have said. And now they are telling someone whom I dearly love that they are not doing enough. Basically, it’s all her fault.
“I’m sorry to interrupt here brothers, but I have make something known here. Have either of you heard her say that she is suicidal?”
Blank stares across the table...
“Now I’m not saying that she does have a mental disease, because she hasn’t been officially diagnosed yet. But do you have any idea what it would do to someone who is suicidal and has a mental disease telling them that they are not doing enough?”
Babbling from both of the WTS chimps.
I focus in on Elder ‘A’. A few minutes ago he asked my wife a Q, and she didn’t give a direct answer. He kept asking her the Q till he got his answer. I now pull the same tactic on him.
“If someone who was clinically depressed came to you and said they wanted to commit suicide, what do you think it would do to them saying that they had to do more and rely on Jehovah?”
“I’m just giving Bible counsel here brother.”
“I’m sorry, that doesn’t answer my Q. Let’s try this again; if someone who was clinically depressed came to you and said they wanted to commit suicide, what do you think it would do to them saying that they had to do more and rely on Jehovah?”
He gives the same pat answer.
I ask the Q a third time, and I verbally remind him that he pressed my wife into answering his Q, so I expect the same courtesy from him as I ask him this Q.
He of course he dodges the Q.
“Since you won’t answer my Q, I’ll help you out. Telling someone who is suicidal and that may have a mental disease that they have to do more can push them over the edge. Every source I have seen has seen has said that the person needs professional help now.”
Elder ‘A’; “Have you read the WTS info RE this?”
“Yes, I have, have you? Because even the WTS info says that if the person feels that they need professional help that you should seek it.”
“Well, I was going to say that.”
“When? We have been here over an hour and I haven’t heard that from either one of you yet. Look, I think the both of you mean well, but you just are not familiar enough with this type of problem to be giving counsel like you are. You may be doing more harm than good.”
Elder ‘A’ is starting to get offended; “I helped some with mental problems in the past.”
“Well, you sure aren’t acting like it now.”
And this was the point that pushed them over the edge.
“I’m sorry,” as I pointed to elder ‘A’, “but you are a window salesman.”
“And you ,” as I point at elder ‘B’, “you are a plumber. What qualification do either one of you have giving my wife mental therapy?”
“Do the either of you realize that if my wife committed suicide, I would come at the both of you, not the WTS, but the both of you personally with a lawsuit for this erroneous advice you are giving her? Do you think that the WTS would back you up in such a case?”
Now mousy, quiet, meek elder ‘B’, the plumber, turns a side I have never seen before. Elder ‘A’ shows a side I knew was always there, but just buried rather well.
Elder ‘B’, the plumber, “Well, if you are so smart, what are doing to help her? You’ve known about this for a while apparently, what are YOU doing?!”
And elder ‘A’, “Ya, don’t pin this on us. We are just trying to help. You’re the head and you’re the one responsible!”
“That’s right, I am the head and it is my responsibility. And that’s why I am here to give you guys a shot. But I have also contacted others for professional help. And that’s the way we are going to proceed.”
Well, they spend the next hour trying to ‘help’ my wife. My wife is obviously getting restless and wants to go.
After over two hours, we finally get to leave. We shake hands. Elder ‘A’ [Mr. “So What” RE dates] says that if I want to get together and talk to him about my concerns, he is open to doing so. I said I wouldn’t mind having, not a talk, but an open discussion. I know that remark fell on deaf ears.
Then elder ‘B’, the plumber, gives this wonderfully sound advice;
“Not to belittle the issue but sometimes what can help one think clearer is to get enough rest. That can really help. Has your wife been getting enough sleep?”
The ignorance of some people is BREATHTAKING!
I must have had a stupid smirk on my face, because he got uneasy and then nervously laughed out, “Did I say something funny?”
“Well, if someone is clinically [I named the disease] and wants to commit suicide, sleep is the last problem they have. All they want to do is sleep because they can’t even muster any energy to get out of bed.”
“Oh…., um, [to my wife] so have you been getting enough sleep?”
My wife answers, “Ya, I slept the entire day away over the weekend.”
“Oh…”
My wife and I walk out. She starts apologizing for causing me so much trouble and that she is sorry. I reassure her that it’s not her fault, it’s the disease and that this is treatable. I love her dearly and that any bad personality traits that she may have are not her true personality traits, but rather the disease. The girl I married and fell in love with is still there underneath all the pain.
She said that she felt sorry for the two elders because they were in way over their heads. She also wanted to leave the meeting early on, but didn’t say anything.
We spend the rest of the night watching a movie and eating “movie theater snacks”. It was a really nice evening. Her mood is more positive of late.
I’m sure it will only be a matter of time before the elders take action against me. They will no doubt be waiting for an opportune time that they feel action will best benefit my wife who is now in spiritual danger from me.
Elder ‘B’, the plumber, said to me before we left that he hopes that if I truly love my wife that I think about everything that the elders said that night. What a jag! I should have told him to shut his piehole because he was now only embarrassing himself.
Well, now I am setting up an appointment for her to see someone professionally. I knew the WTS was dangerous, but I never realized just how lethal they could be. They are like blindfolded snipers randomly firing off shots into a crowded plaza. Someone is going to get hurt, and I’m going to do everything in my power to get my wife out of this cult before she is hit by their bullet. Hopefully my wife is starting to see the WTS’ true colors now.
Winston.