FYI - Raven you have the right to know anyone who accuses you of anything.
So don't stand for an anonymous person if it comes down to you actually wanting to meet with them or they moving forward with any punitive action.
I've had enough..
by raven 63 Replies latest jw experiences
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freddo
The Elder book has a line in it about going ahead in absentia if a person "repeatedly" fails to show for a J/C. My money is on the fact they will not go ahead until the second time so that they have their backsides covered on the "repeatedly" point should you appeal on that point.
As has been mentioned, the elders would have initially had two of the body "investigate" - i.e. get their ducks in a row as in having two witnesses.
Now you say one witness is "anonymous" - did the elders tell you that or your mother. If your mother said it then you can give it what credence you wish. If the elders said it then that is unusual because you can demand to know who the two witnesses are.
Maybe they have camped outside your house to get "evidence". If so then they have all they need.
A letter denying "any judicial wrongdoing" and demanding to know the sources of any witness against you, copied to your branch office might get them off your back if they don't have two witnesses who will stand up and say they know/heard you admit that you have been having an intimate relationship.
I think you will be DFd soon because it appears they believe they have all they need to do so.
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raven
FREDDO- I will end up DF'd at some point. I don't really care about that, but I am just concerned as to what "guidelines" lead them to what they are currently doing. And I also just wish they'd do it already and leave me alone. But there is no way I'm giving in to an interrogation, my first JC ( when I was reproved ) involved questions such as "Was there any penetration?" "Where did you touch him, and where did he touch you?" " And how do you feel about not remaining chaste until marriage?" - I'm not going to let these men ask me such vile questions, or give into cowering like a good little dub and complying with their demands for me to confess and get wrapped up into living in a cult again. As far as the "anonymous tipper" my mother told me that, not the elders.. So I think she just made it up in order for me to confess with assuming there are 2 witnesses. - I also feel that if these elders did get "evidence" they probably wouldn't have any luck, the house is very hard to get to, it also is so obvious if there is a car out front with the way it sits.. I would know if someone was staking out.. Plus I'm hardly there with working full time long hours.
Do you think as a last resort of proof they will stake out at the house?
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Wasanelder Once
You say you are done with this organization? Why do you care if they DF you? Either ignore them or tell them to shove it.
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Giordano
Raven consider the following: you are in effect an ex member of the JW's.
Why is it a bad idea to continue church discipline on non members?
First off it is violation of domestic law. Religion in American is a consensual affair at all times not permanent contract. A person's relationship with a religion ends the moment they say it ends. It is a violation of first amendment rights to assert religious authority over someone without their consent. Marian Guinn vs Church of Christ Collinsville is an important case where the courts were definitive, "No real freedom to choose religion would exist in this land if under the shield of the First Amendment religious institutions could impose their will on the unwilling and claim immunity from secular judicature for their tortuous acts."http://church-discipline.blogspot.com/2008/12/why-not-to-keep-going-on-with.html
If you go to the Judicial you would be consenting to their authority.
Second it is a violation of international human rights law: Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance. (Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 18).
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Hadriel
...what Giordano said. +1
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Divergent
Raven, I was just wondering if by any chance your mother could have in her possession any evidence of you confessing your "sin", in the form of writings / text messages / e-mails / recorded phone calls?
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Dunedain
IGNORE, IGNORE, IGNORE. That's all you have to do Raven. If you truly do not care about your "standing" in the cult, then don't worry about it.
As others have said, do not give them any "power" over you, and to do anything to you.
You do not have to subject yourself to their inappropriate questions, their fake "concern" when really they only want to catch you, and discipline you.
If you give them ANYTHING, like your time, energy, information, you are still letting the Cult have some control over you. You do not have to do that. You are truly free from them, but only when you do not let them have any effect on your life.
I LOVE the fact that you are moving very soon. This is an awesome stroke of "luck" at this time. You basically have been ignoring them, and essentially the most they have done is leave/send you a few letters. Its really nothing if you let it continue to be nothing, by ignoring it. Once you move, now they cannot even find you, to leave a letter, or anything.
This is GREAT. You will be completely free, because you are not giving them ANY power over you. They are simply mere men, who for some reason, believe they can judge fellow humans, and they can decide someones "standing" before an Almighty God. Its absurd, really, and its all meaningless once you give them no power over you.
So far, you have, and are, doing EVERYTHING RIGHT. Please continue to ignore them, especially since you said you do not care about the outcome anyway. Since you are not giving your new address to Mom, and you are moving soon, by ignoring them still, you are very soon about to be completely free of this Cult, and these men. Congrats, and keep ignoring them, you are doing it perfect.
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Island Man
Here's a response you can write them:
Dear Judicial Committee,
I will not be attending your star chamber tribunal witch-hunt seeking to inquire into my personal affairs which are none of your business.
I have no "issues" with my present living arrangements. I am in no need of any "help" from you condescending lot. The "issues" you refer to are none of my business. They're all yours - the products of your masters in New York and the imaginary being that you worship. Go get help for your own issues and stop trying to make them my issues!
Fully awake, kool-aid free and sober,
raven.
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Dunedain
Another thing I did want to mention too, but forgot, is if even after you move, and have not given your new info to anyone, and these Elders continue to "hunt" you down, you really do have a case of harassment.
These men, at this point, would really be going above and beyond "normal" reason. You would not need to get a lawyer, or any expense like that. You would simply have to go down to your local police station. Bring the letters, and all you have to show what they are doing. Give a little back ground info about the cult, and USE THAT WORD.
Give them the names of these 3 harassing men, and you would now have a record of whats going on. If they persist you would be able to take further action to STOP them from trying to contact you, and all the while still be ignoring them.
Hopefully, once you move, it wont get to this point, and you will just be left alone. You never know though, and its always better to be prepared. For now, keep ignoring, and it should work out for you.