by KGB 233 Replies latest members adult
I think the ghosts must have possessed some of the minds of posters on this thread.....keep it up...haven't laughed so much for ages
Interesting, that was JUST what I was thinking about all those who are limited by their 'eyes' on this board. Yeah, they are pretty funny.
You assume that everyone in the house saw the phone jump. Is that really what happened? Did anyone actually see it jump at all? Since no one was near the phone, perhaps they just heard it fall and assumed it jumped. Or maybe one person saw it move from the corner of their eye and the rest just heard it.
No, that's not what happened. Let me describe their living room. I'll try and do a diagram here:
__________________________________
stairs phone & table
______ open doorway __________
TV SET
LIVING ROOM
couch
________________________________________
They were sitting on the couch watching TV. They have a full view of where the telephone was. It didn't just fall off the table; it landed close to the bottom of the stairs, which is a good 5 feet from the table. The boys were sitting there with them watching TV, so it wasn't them playing a joke; in fact it apparently scared the hell out of them. The daughter was at her boyfriends house. They have no pets. No one else was in the house and as I've already observed: they have a full view of the telephone from where they were sitting on the couch and saw it fly off the table all by itself.
These are not fringe people. My girlfriend has a PhD and teaches Chemistry. Her husband works in Municipal Law and is (or was) himself a sceptic in the supernatural. However, the experiences they've had in this house has made him far more open to the idea that there's more to life than this one.
So rem, you tell me: from the view they had sitting on the couch, where they can clearly see the telephone and what happened: how did it move like that on its own?
I already posted one of the experiences I had but I have had several and I know beyond a doubt that there is a spirit world.
I have had a couple of experiences where I just woke up suddently in the night and I was terrified for no apparent reason. I felt a very evil presence in the room and I was frozen with terror. I could not see anything but I cannot even try to explain the feeling of evilness that was there in the room. I was shaking with terror, and just started praying to Jehovah and finally whatever it was went away but I could not go back to sleep all night, I just kept shaking. This happened a couple of different times.
I also had an experience, not with Ghosts but like a premonition. It was I think in 1996 when there was the big earthquake in Los Angeles. I was asleep and all of a sudden plain as day I was woken up, at about 5:30 am by a voice in my head that said "there is going to be an earthquake". It was really weird, but I just laid there thinking about it and thought"it must have been a dream". I was trying to go back to sleep when all of a sudden the phone rang, and it was a good friend of mine in Hollywood and he told me they just had a really big earthquake. I couldn't beleive it, I was totally flabbergasted.
How can this have a scientific explanation?
DoubleEdge,
Why play games? You know as well as I do that there are several research papers on the paranormal that have come out of Arizona. You made the claim that a particular study validated the paranormal. If you would like to discuss the particular study, please provide it. I have never seen anything conclusive come from any study, whether it be the SRI in California, the University of Arizona, or various other Universities and research institutions around the world.
Most times the research studies are not replicable, have bad controls, and some have even been fraudulent. (See Blackmore). This is not opinion, this is just not good science.
rem
Sxybrwneyes,
Like I said before, you are describing a classic case of Night Terrors. This happens to many people, including myself. It is a biological phenomenon, not a spiritual one.
Here is a convenient site to learn more about it: http://www.nightterrors.org/
rem
Your beliefs are based on what you have read, others beliefs are based on what they have experienced. You have not walked in their shoes and you have not experienced what they have, which by the way is more convencing of an argument than mere belief from reading.
Thank you Double-Edge, you hit the nail on the head with that one. It's unbelievable that someone who wasn't even there claims that those that HAVE had these experiences are liars or "mistaken".
I have had a couple of experiences where I just woke up suddently in the night and I was terrified for no apparent reason. I felt a very evil presence in the room and I was frozen with terror. I could not see anything but I cannot even try to explain the feeling of evilness that was there in the room.
Actually now, this experience DOES have a scientific explanation. You were more than likely experiencing Sleep Paralysis, or known as Night Terrors. Normally when you sleep, both your mind and body are relaxed and peaceful. Sleep Paralysis happens when your mind is awake, but your body isn't. You feel paralyzed with fear, you can feel that something or someone is in the room with you and it's really scary. I've had this a few times and I did think it was demons until I found out what was causing it.
Mary,
Thanks for the additional information, but I'm still not convinced of a supernatural cause because of the diagram. First off, the kids being scared means nothing... when my brother and I played pranks on my mom we acted the part too. I'm not saying that's the cause, I'm just saying that it's more plausible than the supernatural.
The observers were watching TV so they were distracted from the phone. There are intersting psychological illusions that happen when you are focusing on something and there is movement outside your focus that might have played into the interpretation of this event.
Also, when a phone falls, it may actually tumble a few feet away, depending on various things, such as the type of flooring, and the type of phone. Also, it's quite possible (actually probable) that the story has been exaggerated by multiple tellings by the multiple witnesses. So a tumble of a couple feet may have been exaggerated into a jumping of 5 feet - especially if the observers already believe in the supernatural and they are shaken by the experience.
Add this to other small things and it's no wonder people can believe in ghosts, but with some investigation and critical thinking it is highly probable that a physical explanation can be found.
rem
Rem...
Now who is playing games. I asked you a very simple question.... what study were you quoting as being dubious? You shotgun your thoughts without being specific.
I was speaking about the study of Gary E. Schwartz, Phd... his biography is as follows:
Professor of psychology, medicine, neurology, psychiatry, and surgery at the University of Arizona and director of its Human Energy Systems Laboratory. After receiving his doctorate from Harvard University, he served as a professor of psychology and psychiatry at Yale University, director of the Yale Psychophysiology Center, and co-director of the Yale Behavioral Medicine Clinic. He has published more than four hundred scientific papers, edited eleven academic books and is the coauthor, with Linda G. Russek, Phd., of "The Living Energy Universe".
The observers were watching TV so they were distracted from the phone. There are intersting psychological illusions that happen when you are focusing on something and there is movement outside your focus that might have played into the interpretation of this event.
Rem for God's sake, the phone is in FULL VIEW of where they were sitting. They didn't imagine it and it didn't just "fall" - the damn thing came off the table as though someone had picked it up and tossed it.
Also, it's quite possible (actually probable) that the story has been exaggerated by multiple tellings by the multiple witnesses.
Just like I said in the beginning: you think you're so very clever and smart. YOU know what happened, or what probably happened, even though you weren't there. These were eye-witnesses. It happened to THEM. Seeing as you refuse to consider a supernatural explanation, you once again come up with excuse that they must have "exaggerated" the experience simply because it doesn't fit with what you personally believe. You may have read alot on the workings of the mind, but seeing as you weren't there when these experiences happened, yours is simply guess work.
You remind me of the people that were on the Warren Commission when they "investigated" JFK's assassination. These people already had their minds made up beforehand that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman and all the people who were present that day and who said they heard shots from the Grassy Knoll were really all just "mistaken" or "liars" even though they were eye witnesses to the event. Although no one on the WC was even present during the assassination, they smuggly discounted all theories that they personally did not agree with, even if it meant coming up with the most bizarre alternatives. And you are no different.
Rem for God's sake, the phone is in FULL VIEW of where they were sitting.
the door to my office is in full view of where im sitting right now, but that doesnt mean if someone burst through the door id immediately know who it was without first looking up from my computer.
aa
