does honesty need to be harsh? (page 18)

Aztec

*limping cause Sixy bit my leg off*

Iimp, waddle, limp...

~Aztec

hillary_step

wondered when you would be directed to that forum! Glad you found it! Yes, my reputation there is legendary, I'm proud to say. This is just a suggestion, but you might consider pointing out to whoever helped you find it one miniscule little fact that isn't commonly known: unlike here, there are no rules over there. It's totally censor free. And, if you know JanH half as well as I do and ever find yourself at the receiving end of one of his juvenile diatribes, you might find it impossible to speak civilly with the man at all times. Rabid dogs don't respond well to sweet talk. When in Rome... and all that. Besides, even in this thread I've tried, without much avail, that what applies here does not apply everywhere. Hint: that's a different site with different rules of conduct. That place has as much similarity to JW.com as a kindergarten does to the wilds of Mongolia. Any reasonable person (emphasis on "reasonable") would accept that what flies here won't fly everywhere. Or didn't you know that?

TJ treads water wearing lead boots.....

HS

teejay

Am I saying that harsh words are never appropriate in any circumstance? No, of course not. It is simply my strong opinion that IN THE CONTEXT OF POSTING ON THIS FORUM, if something good can be accomplished with a harsh and cutting word, something better can be accomplished with the use of some alternative expression. -- teejay

Sometimes yes, and sometimes no. Tell us, please. How much actual experience do you have in convincing online JWs or their defenders that they're wrong? -- AlanF

Might it be appropriate, in the face of an oncoming locomotive, a housefire, a falling piano, an unwanted suitor, or any number of real-life scenarios to become harsh in one's expression or tone? Yes.

Is it ever appropriate to become harsh in one's expression or tone IN THE CONTEXT OF POSTING ON THIS FORUM? No.

To suit your own agendas, may the twisting of my words continue, gentlemen... though I'm certain you both clearly understand my meaning.

wasasister

Since the door was opened so to speak....this topic was well-covered elsewhere. And I quote, without permission and at the personal risk of being deactivated for the audacity of doing this, pasting a very relevant post from another place:

******************************************************

Many exJWs say that we have to make sure the discussion boards and other web sites "put up a good witness" and take care not to offend lurkers, who may well be JWs with doubts who can easily be "stumbled" by some content.

I've heard this view expressed a million times before. It is well intended, perhaps, but it is based on a number of misunderstandings.

It is interesting to note that those who hold the view that we have to be good witnesses for exiting dubs almost always have the least experience in ex-cult support work. I doubt many of them spent many hours with suicidal, depressed exJWs, or received many phone calls at 3AM in the morning from some desperate parent who wants help because their son or daughter is about to join the JWs.

Many forget that Dubs come from a religion where Mother Theresa and Adolf Hitler are considered equally evil in God's eyes. The whole idea that one can persuade them by being "nice apostates" is pretty ludicruous.

Those who come out, have somehow lost their faith in the organization. They are testing the boundaries of new freedom. Any armchair psychologizing about what is good or bad for them is almost certainly wrong. It is based on pop-psychology, not actual experience "in the field."

Will some be offended? Of course. Some will be offended by the word "f**k". Some will be offended by the word "f**k" being censored. Some will be offended by criticism of their own country. Others will be offended by blatant patriotism.

In short: they will be offended. Welcome to the real world!

So what can we do? We can be real human beings who stand up for what we think and mean, and who cares about others based on who they are, not based on what religion they belong to.

If there ever should exist any of those mythological fragile beings who are so offended by anything done by (other) apostates that they run back to the Watchtower to peddle magazines door-to-door for the rest of their lives, let them do so !

***********

The ensuing discussion was mostly as interesting and fruitful as this one.

Go ahead, Mods, confine me to the fires of hell for referencing this excellent post.

hillary_step

Might it be appropriate, in the face of an oncoming locomotive, a housefire, a falling piano, an unwanted suitor, or any number of real-life scenarios to become harsh in one's expression or tone? Yes. Is it ever appropriate to become harsh in one's expression or tone IN THE CONTEXT OF POSTING ON THIS FORUM? No. To suit your own agendas, may the twisting of my words continue, gentlemen... though I'm certain you both clearly understand my meaning.

TJ treads water wearing lead boots...and a concrete babushka.

HS

onacruse

Alan, thanks for just now calling me. Yet again, you show to me the caring person that you are.

Azzie: Kate and I will be up for a little bit yet...call!

Six: Were you threatening to bite my leg, or Azzie's? I have a lot more meat on my calves than she does

Craig

AlanF

DannyBear said:

: I see that my effort at utilizing the 'harsh' method of communication got the intended results.

Any moron can post dull insults like "your mother wears army shoes". But to be effective in waking someone up, they must have a grain of truth behind them; otherwise they're pointless and show the insulter to be a dullard.

Stay in your home waters, Danny.

AlanF

xenawarrior

Yes, my reputation there is legendary, I'm proud to say. This is just a suggestion, but you might consider pointing out to whoever helped you find it one miniscule little fact that isn't commonly known: unlike here, there are no rules over there. It's totally censor free.

Did I miss something Teejay? I thought you had been arguing the "effectiveness" of harsh vs. mild not what was "allowed".

No one has yet to say that harsh "never works" Alan; only that mild is better and equally effective – if not more so.

HS,
The way some of your comments were worded seemed to indicate that you felt differently ("sometimes harsh words are required to *validate* honesty") than the way you finally expressed yourself, so i t's good that you agree that harsh words on a db such as this one are never appropriate .

I guess I'm one of the confused . I really thought you were saying that mild was more effective and that we should really all be self-regulatory with regard to this on a database "such as this". hmmmm. Go figure eh? Now it's that we should only be mild if the rules call for it, not because it's the right thing to do or it's more effective in sincerely helping others?

Oh well, I'm blonde- I guess I just don't understand such deep stuff.

Need to go to bed now- my brain hurts

XW

Aztec

Oh well, I'm blonde- I guess I just don't understand such deep stuff.
Need to go to bed now- my brain hurts

I bet it does! Guess not all blonde's are up for fun eh?

Any moron can post dull insults like "your mother wears army shoes". But to be effective in waking someone up, they must have a grain of truth behind them; otherwise they're pointless and show the insulter to be a dullard.

Hmmmmm! Waiting for someone to call me a dullard! Alan, your mother wears army shoes!

~Aztec de brat..LOL

onacruse

Sorry to "pick and choose" here, but I do have energy limits

HS:

I am exactly the same person today as I was then, with almost all my personal ethics unchanged.

That speaks volumes about one difference between you and me. Myself, I've been incredibly changed since I came to this db last year. I see what you say about this bd from such a different perspective, my perspective. What you just shared helps me immensely.

XW, I know that you well remember all those hours I spent in chat, with you, Valis, LyinEyes, Cowboy, scootergirl, and so many others (oh, and that bikerchic troll too LOL ). Your kindness and sensitive understanding made me feel welcome and safe. I'll always have a special place in my heart for you.

teejay:

Yes, my reputation there is legendary, I'm proud to say.

That comment, dear sir, puts many miles between you and me. I'll understand your future posts with a different perspective.

wasa:

So what can we do? We can be real human beings who stand up for what we think and mean, and who cares about others based on who they are, not based on what religion they belong to.

Thanks for posting that. In spite of whatever disagreements about "method" that have been expressed in this thread, there remains no doubt that what most all of us here care about is the "human beings" who have been, or are still being, crushed to death in the WTS.

Craig (of the "breathe-in, breathe-out" class)

does honesty need to be harsh?

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