Do old time present day active JW`s genuinely believe in overlapping generations ?

by smiddy3 70 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Diogenesister
    RedVip2000 you ask a typical JW why they think they are the truth, they will simply say things about not participating in wars, about using God's name, about staying out of wordly things, about not believing in the trinity and other doctrines

    Yup. The box ticking excercize. Only we preach, we dont participate in wars etc.

    I cant think of a single dub, when posed the question "why are you the truth?" Would say "because Jesus chose us in 1919 and the end will come after two of our anointed generations have almost passed."

    Jesus said THIS generation not THESE generationS

  • Ding

    I think I've figured it out.

    When Jesus said "this generation" he was pointing to a chart that showed the overlapping generations.

    In order to suppress the truth, the chart was destroyed by scribes at the same time they were removing the Tetragrammaton from the NT manuscripts more than 200 times.

    Fortunately, one scribe had a crisis of conscience and hid a copy of the chart in the Great Pyramid.

    Russell discovered the chart in the pyramid but died before he could publish it.

    David Splane discovered it while searching through Russell's papers and revealed it to the world.

    All this proves that Armageddon is just around the corner.

  • Rattigan350

    Sea Breeze said: "JW's start with a belief paradigm. This is their worldview, their lens by which they interpret all data they experience:

    1. They alone have the truth

    2. Their experts have it all figured out

    3. Jesus already returned invisibly

    4. The church age (Gentile Times) has already ended; and with that so has the offer for immortality by faith alone. Now, everyone has to work for it by accepting the framework worked out by the F&DS asks."

    I say you are wrong.

    1. JWs say they have the truth because there is only one truth from the beginning. From Gen 1:1 to the Israelites and the Law and the temple, there was one truth. Jesus nullified the Law and the temple, but there was still one truth. Then for centuries the truth got contaminated and diluted. But JWs had the intent of seeking that truth of Jesus. No one else has tried or done that.

    2. As to 'their experts'. If it weren't for the case of building and supporting a religion, the ones involved have always focused on God, not the people.

    3. Jesus has not returned invisibly. He has taken the throne in heaven invisible to human eyes in 1914. The throne of David became heavenly.

    4. The Gentile times is not the church age. That is the time period from when the rulership on the throne of God was not occupied by a sovereign ruler in the line of David. From 607 when King Jehoiakim was made a vassel until Jesus became king in 1914. So many people in and out of the organization don't understand that.

  • blondie

    If I were still a jw and read all these explanations (and the constantly changing WT ones) I would have a splitting headache and stop thinking about it.

    Was the message of Jesus (according to the WTS) so complicated that the religious leaders had to explain it to them?


    A prominent religious sect of Judaism in the first century C.E. They were not of priestly descent, but they were strict observers of the Law in its smallest detail, and they elevated oral traditions to the same level. (Mt 23:23)

    JESUS said concerning the scribes and Pharisees: “They bind up heavy loads and put them upon the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger.” (Matthew 23:4) As evidence of how that proved to be true, we read the following in A Dictionary of the Bible, edited by James Hastings:

    The scribes were not philosophers; they were interpreters of the sacred Law. . . . Every department of life was regulated by it. . . . Every biblical commandment was surrounded by a network of petty regulations. No allowance was made for changing circumstances; full obedience to the Law in all its particulars was inexorably demanded of every Jew. To the precepts of the Written Law were added those of the ‘Halakha’ or Traditional Law, which was handed down as a sacred trust from generation to generation, and ultimately embodied in the Talmud. . . . An attempt was thus made to bring every conceivable case within the scope of the Law, and with merciless logic to regulate the whole of human conduct by strict rule of thumb. Legal details were multiplied until religion became a trade, and life an intolerable burden. Men were reduced to moral automatons. The voice of conscience was stifled; the living power of the Divine word was neutralized and smothered beneath a mass of eternal rules. Hence our Lord’s accusation against the Pharisees, that by their traditions they made void the Law.”

    -------------Comment: The religious leaders even considered their authority to interpret god's word was above Jesus authority and that the ordinary jews should come to the religious leaders. Does that sound familiar, that god's word could not be understood by the ordinary jews without going through the religious leaders (or those taking the lead)?

  • john.prestor

    No one else has tried to find the truth, Rattigan? Go read any book on spirituality or religion. People try to find 'the truth' all the time.

  • OnTheWayOut

    JW's born-in are wired differently. If they are properly indoctrinated and trained, they are cult-wired to accept anything they are told. That's one factor.

    Another factor has to do with the era that ended with Ray Franz. That was the era of members starting from assuming that the Bible is God's word, God's name is Jehovah, Jehovah's Witnesses have 'the truth' when it comes to the last days and Armageddon and things related. That era included deep research. Granted, the research was to verify the truth of JW teachings, but nevertheless it was complicated but not so wildly off of a general track that A leads to B, B leads to C, and so on. My mother is of that era. She sticks with a basic understanding that A leads to B and so on. And while I came into the organization in the late 80's, it was still coasting on people of the Ray Franz era, so I was trained by people of that era.

    The new era takes wild leaps with an unconnected generation and radical changes in doctrine because of the ticking of time and because of monetary needs. Long-time people of the previous era have to do as Blondie has said and relieve the tension caused by cognitive dissonance in only one way- "stop thinking about it." My mother clearly wants to reject the new teachings, but just can't deal with the headache of abandoning a "truth" she supported for decades, so she stops thinking about it, pretends all is fine at Watchtower, places literature and enjoys her JW friends.

    People of my time of training might go that way or might wake up- its a toss up. I meet so many who have left and I know of so many who have not left. We tend to be the ones who still know the doctrine. We either know its wrong or we think we understand why its right. People later down the line are either those born in and wired differently or they leave. I think it really is that simple.

  • BluesBrother

    The ones I know don't talk about such things in my company... but my family just have the view that they have to come up with something.......

  • Tenacious
    Finkelstein wrote:
    Yes 2000 years ago, he was speaking to the people at the time he was living.
    He said many of you will not experience death.
    The bible writers screwed up.

    Jesus was speaking to the future generation that would see ALL of these signs together. It's obvious none of the generation he was speaking to at that time had seen ALL of these signs or ANY, not sure. That's why again he said THIS generation as in that future generation.

    No one there that believed in Him experienced death. He was speaking spiritually or physically. When he said "many" he knew WHO there at that moment would actually die/sleep before his resurrection and who would not die (still alive and be changed in the blink of an eye upon their death to be with Him after he resurrected and ascended).

    It's just a matter of understanding the scriptures as a whole not misinterpreting them bits and pieces.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    Hi Rattigan,

    Then for centuries the truth got contaminated and diluted. But JWs had the intent of seeking that truth of Jesus. No one else has tried or done that.

    That just doesn't match up with reality. All cults claim that everybody else has it wrong and they are the only ones to restore , the truth, true worship, etc.

    The early congregation elders who were the 1st, 2nd & 3rd generation disciples of the apostles wrote a lot of stuff to each other. They wrote about the trouble makers and their crazy ideas and how they handled it. They named names and false teachings. So, it is pretty easy to find out who the heretics were, what they taught, and what their thoughts were on the matter.

    I recommend this book; pretty easy to read.

    Jehovah's Witnesses do not seek the truth of Jesus. Even though Jesus was appointed as Mediator between God and Men, the Watchtower clergy inserts themselves in between man and Christ.

    This was a teaching completely unknown to the apostles. And, according to them, they must be cursed for teaching such a new thing:

    But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. - Galatians 1: 8, 9

    JW's teach their version of the Good News (Gospel) of the Kingdom. But they ignore the Good News of Jesus' Salvation from Judgment and inheritance of immortal life for the average member.

    New Testament occurrences of the term Gospel of _______ .

    Gospel of Jesus Christ (or Christ ) – 12 times
    Gospel of God – 7 times
    Gospel of the kingdom – 4 times
    Gospel of peace – 2 times
    Gospel of the grace of God – 1 time
    Gospel of your salvation – 1 time
    Gospel of the uncircumcision – 1 time
    Gospel of the circumcision – 1 time

    Gospel of his Son – 1 time

    As you can see, the Good News of Jesus , God, Salvation, Peace etc. is mentioned six times more often than the "good news of the kingdom".

    Yet, the Watchtower focuses their entire message on the “good news of the kingdom”. Of course the “kingdom”, as explained by the Watchtower is really just another name for themselves (the visible part therof) in their way of thinking. It is repeated so often in Jehovah’s Witness circles that many will go to the extent and say that the bible is a book of government….. which they are quick to point out refers to their own ecclesiastical authority in modern times.

    Finally, JW's ignore the fact stated in Phil 2: 9

    "God ... gave him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth"

    The highest name in the Universe is not Jehovah, but Jesus. JW's don't like that. But, that has been foundational Christian doctrine from the times of the apostles.

    Jehovah's Witnesses are among the worst heretics that Christianity has ever witnessed. Jesus only got angered at religious people when on earth. Religious people should think deeply about the implications of that.

    Hope this helps.

  • Tenacious


    Personally, I would have loved to have lived in the Old West. Life was simple and I'd live off the land. Of course I'd have to consider the life span of males back then I believe was in the upper 40s so that's definitely something to think about .

    Given the advances in medicine I agree that life expectancy has definitely surged for developed countries but not so much in third world ones. Diseases are down the world over due to the advances in medicine but diseases go hand in hand with economic development which is also tied in to famine and poverty. If you have a poor country you'll have widespread poverty which sparks disease, famines, and eventually crime.

    Education as in general education is now within the reach of many people even in under developed countries due to the internet. As far as freedom well you have countries like Russia, China, Iran, N. Korea, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Nicaragua, and many other smaller countries that don't afford the freedom we enjoy here in the U.S.

    As far as conflict, historians will agree the 20th century to be the bloodiest in the history of conflicts.

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