Ray Franz.....LIAR? (page 14)

iCeltic

Thanks 'Leavingwt' - i'll check it out once I pick my stomach off the floor after reading COC.

mouthy

iCeltic Welcome to the family,,,I knew both Ed & Ray...

.They were HONEST fellows, They felt we should know what goes on in
the place we all believed TRUTH came from...
I attended the court case of Victoria B. & saw the way the lawyers lied
Glen Howe was in attendance & qouted to me,"we dont have to tell the truth to
those who dont deserve it " So anyone that is NOT a JW doesnt have to know
anything that goes on inside the Org:
I feel we lost a good man when Ray passed away...I miss his humble way.

iCeltic

Mouthy - I've experienced things first hand (none of this, i'm not in the US/Canada) that would make your blood boil, I just ignored a lot of it until it got to a point where I couldn't cope with it anymore, sad thing is all these years later I've never been able to move on with my life without being in fear. No ones believes you (in the org) and you're just a trouble maker.

There's more at stake for me because, without saying too much, someone important to me still attends. I'm sorry if that sounds suss, i'm just being careful.

Found Sheep

Welcome iCeltic!! It's a hard road to go down!!

I never had the privledge to meet Ray Franz but read both of his books. He seemed like an amazing Man. One of my "idols" to this day!

00DAD

Is Ray Franz a liar? Maybe he is, maybe he is not. I don't know. Personally, I never met the man. There are things he said that I can independently corroborate and things I cannot.

But I do know this for a certainty: He absolutely, positively and conclusively proved the GB are hypocrites and liars and he proved it with evidence from their own publications and their own documents. Many (but not all) of his proofs and evidence can be independently verified for accuracy and authenticity.

Also, consider these points:

Ray never asked me or anyone else to follow him; the GB insists that they are the visible leadership of God's Organization
Ray never claimed to have a lock on truth; the GB not only do, but insists that only they have the Truth
Ray never claimed that you have to believe/follow/associate with him to be saved; the GB has repeatedly asserted that no one can have it or salvation apart from them
Ray didn't shun me or anyone else for disagreeing with him; the GB did and continue to do so

There is more, but either you see the point or are a victim of "willful blindness"

Decide for yourself ... or maybe you'd prefer to wait for the latest WT to tell you what to do.

PS - I had (as is the case of so many on the JWN) already concluded that the GB were hypocrites and liars before I ever read any of Ray Franz' writings. He only confirmed what I already knew and/or suspected.

ShadesofGrey

I had a very hard time reading Ray's book as well, and I feel that most of it was not beneficial to me, as I had already decided that the organization was evil.

Just to include an answer to the OP:

The Watchtower publications actually tell them to get out of the organization, using quotes from those same publications. There are books that help you show them this. The first is Who is the Faithful and wise Servant by Duane Magnani. It has quotes like "Putting forth the effort to locate that older publication and then studying the pages referred to." WT 6/15/85, p. 12. "It is obvious that the God of truth will not look with favor on persons who cling to organizations that teach falsehoood. Would you really want to be associated with a religious organization that had not been honest with you?" Is this life all there is? 1974, p. 46 "Is religious history of any benefit?" "This information has helped many people identify Christs true followers today." WT 9/15/87 p. 30 You can imagine the types of quotes found in that history. Combine this with How to Rescue your Loved One from the Watchtower which shows how they have changed doctrines back and forth and condemned those who didn't change with them, and really exposes them as men making guesses rather than having God's Spirit, even exposing them for the bloodguilt of condemning medical procedures that were later allowed, all with quotes from the publications made available through the organization itself.

May God be with all of you in this endeavor,

SOG

mouthy

someone important to me still attends. I'm sorry if that sounds suss, i'm just being careful.

Hey Celtic...I understand completly. I still have a daughter ,grand-daughter still in.

I wish I had not been so mouthy,when they DF me ,I might still have been able to
cuddle em before I die.But they believe i am in hoots with the devil cos i didnt see

the invisable presence of Jesus when he came.in 1914...... that is why i was DF

iCeltic

:(

mouthy

Thanks for that.Means your care.

Ray Franz.....LIAR?

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