Ray Franz.....LIAR?

by integ 138 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  integ

  One of my witness family members agreed to take a look at Crisis of Conscience, and after

  perusing the first couple of chapters, said that she thought it could be all made up. She

  agreed that the documents presented COULD be legitimate, but as far as Franz's personal

  experiences, she attributed that to just a dis-gruntled man who got df'd, and wanted to make

  money selling books, by MAKING UP STORIES about the Gov. Body. She asked me "what

  proof do you have that this stuff actually happened?" She said "people read this crap and then quit

  the truth because of this guys' lies". What do you say to a person who responds in this manner?

  I said that it is'nt just Franz who is saying this stuff, and the response was.."yeah, the ones

  who were disfellowshipped, who are mad at the Society for booting them out" What do you say in

  response to this? I guess EVERYTHING that a person could bring up to a staunch JW can be

  explained away by saying that all these reports of child abuse, false prophecies, etc. are just

  attacks by Satan. And that we have been warned by the Society to expect these attacks, and

  they are a sign that we are the true religion. Actually to some, the increase in these "false

  reports" lately, are a SURE SIGN we are ever closer to our ultimate liberation in armageddon.

  Any thoughts?

  Thanks,

  Integ.
• 

  PurpleV

  Ask her if all that stuff Ray wrote was false, why hasn't the Society sued him for libel or slander?
• 

  Hamas

  Simply say that the way he was treated has been eye witnessed by other members who were part of Bethel back in the 80's, people such as Randy Watters.

  All the information Franz writes about has automatic back up ; the Watchtowers history is enough to back it up. The only thing that you could possibly question is the manner of the Governing Body meetings, everything else has its place in history and can be backed up with evidence.

  Show the history of the Organization first, then let them read Crises Of Conscience; then it will not be so questionable.
• 

  minimus

  I agree that if the Society ever had a case against Ray Franz, they would have used their legal dept. to try to decimate him. We know what WT. will do in court if they think they can get away with it. They would just love it if they could "prove" that Franz was a liar. But they can't so they wisely shut up.........btw, who's to say that every publication isn't from Jehovah God, after all????
• 

  Joyzabel

  I can't believe she actually "read" several chapters because anyone who does would NEVER say it was written by a "disgruntled" xjw. Ray's style of writing is non-confrontational, non-angry, "just the facts, ma'm" kind of style. Why does she come off so upset about facts?

  But it is intersting to see how "mind controlled" the JW's are that everything has to fit in their little world or they start to attack what doesn't fit.

  Love your comment PurpleV, right on!

  For those who have "seen the kitchen" they know how filthy the resteraunt really is.

  Sorry, integ, but you are finding out how hard it is to crack the witness shell they put up around themselves. <cough, cult> Ray never refers to the WTBTS as a cult, he is too mild of a person, but hey, I can express my opinion!

  j2bf
• 

  DFWnonJW

  Interestingly typical. My mom read some of CoC but wanted to know what right Ray Franz had to many of the letters etc. included in the book. That I don't have an answer to but would like to know. But as already pointed out, if he had 'taken them illegally' he would surely have been dragged into court by the WT.
• 

  Ravyn

  since Ray went to all the trouble of documenting his truth, then the burden of proof that he is lying is on her. Next time she makes a comment like that tell her to prove him wrong.

  I was 'there' when Ray was. I was not in Bethel, but my father had all those same connections and I grew up with the people and personalities he describes in the book. My father is still 'in' and even he does not deny that what Ray says is true. Anyone who says it is lies wants to believe it is, and does not know the people and places Ray talks about.

  Ravyn
• 

  PurpleV

  For those who have "seen the kitchen" they know how filthy the resteraunt really is.

  Some people really, really do not want to see the kitchen!
• 

  ThiChi

  Ray backs up most of his observations with documentation, names and dates. Any Witness that had any exposure to the Administration would recognize his observations as truthful.
• 

  rocketman

  While the documentation he provided was convincing, here's the two things that convinced me most about the truthfulness of his book:

  1. It does not contain 'sensational' stories that would be hard to believe. The style of writing is not sensationalistic either.

  2. As joy mentioned, he simply presents the facts and lets them speak for themselves. The book shows no real evidence of bitterness or of being written by a "disgruntled" person.