Bendrr I agree the wt has covered up numerous claims of abuse, just as the catholic church has...this being said, SOJ what kind of crack are you smokin? It must be some pretty good stuff cause your fighting a losing battle. Your own words come back to haunt you.
Watchtower to pay for Silentlambs trip
by Dogpatch 182 Replies latest jw friends
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Brummie
it should be raked over the coals for encouraging the abuse and exploitation of children, the destruction of families, and the deaths of those who steadfastly abide by an illogical policy concerning blood transfusions
The post that began this thread and was attributed to Mr. Bowen was absolutely ridiculous, and I stand by my comments in this thread. Assuming these are his comments
Let me get this straight, The Watchtower should be raked over the coals for encouraging the abuse and explotation of Children, yet you claim the opening post is rediculous?
Isnt the opening post pulling the WTower over the coals for the explotation of Children? It has spent so much money to clear the abuser and is now spending more to clear its own reputation....and this isnt exploiting the testimony of the child? Pushing the child aside, diregarding the depths of the abuse in order to save its own filthy reputation?
This post is not a defence of Bill Bowen, though I hasten to add I give him a great thumbs up in writing this out for all to see.
Get a better perspective 144, this is raking the WT over the coals.
Brummie
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SwordOfJah
DJ:
THAT is the problem. How often does a child have two witnesses to their molestation? Do you think it is wise to just believe the perp over the child?
This IS true. I do agree that it is very hard. But I also know that there are interrogation techniques that can help the elders know who is lieing. I DO acknowledge that some elders do not know how to interrogate someone or maybe don't know how to ask the right questions. In a case where it's the accused word against a child, who is lieing? I've personally witnessed both sides of this question.
One case in the 80's had five teenage girls accusing one brother of molesting them. Their exact words were that "he had tried to kiss them" and "touch them in their private parts". According to their testimony, he had done so in a period of three years. A judicial committee was formed. He denied the charges. But it was five victims against his word. He was disfellowshipped. He appealed but he was still disfellowshipped. He wrote to the Society but the Society said there was enough proof against the brother based on the testimony of five girls. I personally wanted this guy in jail. I was really pissed because his wife stood by him all the time despite the testimony of these five young sisters.
Two years later, the brother was still disfellowshipped. One of the original five girls confesses to her parents that she has a dirty conscience because she lied about what the brother had done to her. The parents immediately contact the elders. The elders meet with three of the five girls (two had since the case moved out of the congregation). Seeing that one had already confessed, all three say that they lied. They said that the brother had never attempted to touch them as they had described. They contacted the other two girls that had moved out, but they did not want to meet with the elders. Instead, they sent a signed letter stating that the accusations had all been false and that the brother had never molested them. Why did they lie to the elders about this brother? According to them, they wanted to get back at the brother for getting two of them in trouble with their parents. He had seen them with worldy boys and had told on them to the parents.
In another case, a brother confessed to the elders that he had sexually abused his young blood sister. He confessed after an elder had given a tough talk about "hidden sins" affecting the congregation. A judicial committee was formed. He was disfellowshipped. After calling the Legal Department, he was turned into the authorities within 24 hours. He went to prison.
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happybdaytomeAKAcappucinoOC
TO Sword of Jah,
It is very obvious that you have never been abused sexually or molested or that someone dear to you such as daughter or niece have never been abused.
I know four victims that were abused by JW men/elders. You say that they are to get $$$. In what line did you stand to get your 'brain?'
Tell Mr. intelligent, self declared expert, PhD, MD, how do help a victim who sought the 'elders' help just to hear "IT HAS ONLY BEEN 16 YEARS OF YOUR LIFE?" Up to that point it was ALL her life.
What do you do when your own little sister calls you crying so hard you can't understand a word she is saying because she just had a 'nightmare' and she has just relieved the abuse. "Her mouth being shut by the abuser. Her body beaten. Then the abuser giving his 'talk' from the platform on 'cleanliness' and being an exemplanary JW? Her soul permanently marked by deep scars that haven't even begun to heal.
How do you erase the "memories" that maybe she'll never be able to be intimate with someone because of all the memories, and how about that she might never be able to be mother due to that 'infection' that she had when she was about 6 or 7 years old??
Much damage has been the WTS. How about when all of our family remembers that we were stopped cold by the PO elder from going to speak to a detective? Or how about when that PO elder who lead the committee tha DF my stepfather less than 10 years later gets DF for abusing his own DAUGHTER? How do you think that makes our family feel? And that is the elder's third time being DF.
THE WTS is sick & all it's worried about is loosing $$$$$$$$$$ because the people are finding about the "WICKED WTS & that it's not what it claimed to be". THE wts's image has been damaged permanently by their own doings by NOT protecting the children. THink about NO ONE will want to join such a "nasty" organization who goes to court on the "PEDOPHILES" side. Who gives a damm if they are repented or not. THE DAMAGE HAS BEEN done.
The WTS will reap what it has sowed for many years. The victims will prevail. THE WTS is slowly seeing their numbers go down that is why they are going to court to cover thier fat lying REAR END.
NOw you're probably a WTS attorney and you're just trying to get ideas to help the WTS. So run & run fast cause we're not going to stop & all your comments won't make us doubt. We've been there and we won't go back because we know what the WTS is MADE of.
& please look up how much professional counseling costs per visit & just calculate the amount that will take in therapy for these vicitms to try to heal because a fact is that they will never completely forget the abuse that tehy have lived in skin and flesh.
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144thousand_and_one
"This post is not a defence of Bill Bowen . . . " -- Brummie
I couldn't have said it better myself ! LOL
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SwordOfJah
Benderr:
Come on, you know that it's not true that a molester would be moved to a different congregation. If JWs handle one thing right it's the judicial process. No one is exempt. Even if someone tries to "run-away" from facing a judicial committee and moves to a different congregation, the original will contact the new congregation and inform them of what's going on. If you've ever changed congregations, you know that this information is detailed on who you are and what kind of Witness to where in the original congregation.
outoftheorg:
It's difficult for me to comment on your particular case. It does seem odd, but you must be leaving out some important details about the case. What did the elders tell the Legal Department? Why would the Legal Department tell them to drop it? Was there enough proof? What was the elders reasoning behind the decision? Many questions are unanswered. Since you are so close to the case, it's hard to comment on a one-sided story.
pettygrudger:
I agree with you and I'm not saying everything is perfect with the way elders hanlded some cases. I know they misjudge and make grave errors. The Society will most of the time go by what the local elders are doing and saying about the case. I'm sorry you were treated that way. I do believe these elders will have to answer to Jehovah in the end. I really don't want to be in their shoes. At the same time, I know very well that someone is capable of lieing, specially if they are pissed off at the Organization.
gcc2k:
If you have asked question to me and I have not answered, I'm sorry. I have not noticed any direct questions. Again in your post, you state your opnion but there is no question directed at me. So I read your opinion and then leave it at that.
avishai & Nathan:
Yes.
Mary:
Mary, I'm from the same planet as you. Obviously you like to exxagerate for impact. You say: "What planet are YOU from? These pedophiles are never DF'd, that's the whole problem".
That's not a true statement. You're going to tell me that not one pedophile has ever been disfellowshipped? I know for a fact that this is false as I have seen first-hand not only that a pedophile was disfellowshipped, but also turned into the police.
The reason the Society did not provide examples of these cases is because this is confidential and within the congregations. It's not for the whole world to know about . They don't need the approval of the world nor the media.
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Mulan
Come on, you know that it's not true that a molester would be moved to a different congregation.
They don't move them, but if the molester moves to a new congregation, the only ones who are informed of his record are the elders. The average family in the cong., will not know he is a molester. That is the point.
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DJ
SOJ,
I appreciate you answering me. Thanks.I do understand that not all accused are guilty but isn't that why we have the governing authorities (Romans 13). The police are equipped to determine who is lying better than regular citizens. Although they make mistakes too, it is their job to try to determine the facts and are trained to do so. This is God's arrangement according the Paul's words.
Why wasn't the molester that was sent to jail that you spoke of mentioned on Dateline by the watchtower when asked. Did you see the show? When the legal department told the elder to "Leave it to Jehovah" when he reported a molestation accusation to them, I was horrified that they put their policies before God's legal arrangement of justice. By claiming that God will take care of it in due time is basically ignoring the arrangement that He oversees as punishers of evildoers. It may not be the law in many states to report child molestation but it flies in the face of common sense and concern not to.love, dj
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SwordOfJah
Mulan:
That's true. So the responsability falls on those elders to keep an eye on the guy. I was in a congregation where a past molester moved into it. The original body of elders informed that he had been convicted of molesting a child before he became a witness about 10 years back. The new congregations elders met with him and informed him clearly that they did not want to see him touch a child in the congregation, he couldn't pick up a child in his arms, he couldn't be talking to a child by himself. If he did then he would immediately faced a judicial committee. The elders told him that they would protect the congregations children at all costs. He agreed and up to this day they have had no problems with him. Seems a bit extreme being that the conviction had happened 10 years earlier and before he studie with the Witnesses. But the elders wanted to make sure he understeed his restrictions in regards to children.
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Brummie
144, thanks for the response, it just about summed up how missing the main point is so easily done.
Cheers
Brummie