To The Folks

by Farkel 175 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Big Tex

  When I first started posting here almost a year ago, I was terribly afraid of making a misstep and someone tearing my head off. In all candor, one of the people I was afraid of was Farkel. I never felt that way about Maximus, who seemed to be a kindly, gentle and very wise soul who would gladly take time to sit and talk just because he cared.

  If there was ever going to be a debate on worldwide television against JR Brown or some other JW puppet, there is no one (and I mean that literally) I would rather have debate against them than Farkel.

  Gradually I came to understand Farkel. I "get" him now. I haven't read everything he's written, or followed every barb, but from where I sit, he's been extremely consistent. As the saying goes, he doesn't suffer fools gladly. The times he's reacted emotionally have been due mainly to his music, which is very close and personal to him. And I can respect that. I don't agree with how he has conducted himself all the time. Sometimes he's made me think, other times he's infuriated me. But that is the Farkel package. That is who he is.

  To paraphrase something Craig said, we are all on a journey out of Jehovah's Witnesses. Some are further along than others. Some progress faster than others. No more, no less.

  And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. -- the Beatles, Abbey Road
• 

  wasasister

  AlanF wrote:

  I invite all posters who are not members of Teejay's imaginary cults to step forward and be counted!

  Consider me counted.

  The idea that one can learn something from others, to stand - as it were - on the shoulders of those who have gone before, and yet not be a cult member is quite reasonable.

  To suggest, as TeeJay has, that we depend on gifted writers and talented thinkers and cannot gain independence without them is absurd.

  I left JW's quite on my own. After leaving, I still had doubts about their teachings and whether or not I was going to fry at Armageddon. Reading the works of Ray Franz, AlanF, Farkel, Norm, and Randy Watters, I came to grips with my own beliefs. I am in their debt for helping to free the chains of my former self, but I am certainly NOT a cult member.

  This argument about Farkel's perceived insults is equally absurd. If your self-worth is so tied up in another's opinion of you, you need help. If you have confidence in who and what you are, the term "dipfuck" or "bloodsucker" should not matter one bit.

  And for the record, MOST of you who are the most vocal complainers, have exhibited reprehensible behavior...if not here, then elsewhere.

  Thank you, Alan, for your reasonable response. I worship admire you.
• 

  teejay

  Sheesh, Alan! Why use fifty words when five thousand will do, eh?

  You well know that I am up to the task of matching your five-thousand-word ad hominem treatise with one of equal length but the crux of the matter can be summed up briefly, so why don't I just do that?

  One of the telling differences between a cult member and one who's free is that the one who is free is able and willing to confront the "leader" (for the lack of a better term) with any and all indiscretions. As I said to Gumby, more than a few will see Farkel (for example) verbally abuse a fellow poster, and rather than call him on it, characterize the abuse as witty or clever.

  Your repeated reference to Ray as my god was an interesting ploy. One who didn't know you better would have expected more from you. Thankfully, I know you better. It's sad that you couldn't have come with a stronger argument, but that you didn't is not entirely surprising. Not to me, at least. I've seen your weak arguments on more than one occasion. Remember? Drowning men do tend to catch at straws.

  See Alan, ... the thing is... even if your allegation (that I worshipped Ray Franz) was 100% true (which it isn't), in what way would it nullify anything I said in the other thread? All it would mean is that I was included in among those that I spoke of as not being free from the cult mind-set, yes?

  Look, I could go on obliterating your fine post point by point, but the bottom line is this: Farkel is gone and I, for one, am glad he's gone. I do not miss him and I will not miss him. He was a boor to begin with, but as time went on he was becoming even more and more abusive to his fellow posters and I don't think that's something we should have to put up with when we come here to commiserate with our friends.

  It's okay to disagree – even strongly disagree. But in every other post does he (or anyone) have the right to call people idiots? Bloodsuckers? Morons? Dipf**cks? IMO, no he does not have that right nor that standing, and if that is the best he can do, then we can do without it and him. Good riddance.
• 

  hillary_step

  TJ,

  What Alan has written is quite true and I think you would do well to think on what he has said. I understand what you were trying to say. I agree that most people are followers, they always have been, they always will be. It is part of the circle of life, and as Alan has said is certainly not a unique discovery. Should XJW's be aware of this trap, the innate need of humans to be led by strong leaders? Probably more than most, after all we blindly followed once, which means we very likely could do so again.

  Where you fail yourself is that you gave away your real agenda which overshadowed your argument, This agenda seems to have been to attack those who have hurt you in some way in the past. Had you perhaps made your point without naming names, it would have been a far more valuable exercise. I honestly think you went over the top on this one TJ.

  As it is, I view AlanF, Raymond Franz, JanH, Norm and Farkel as valuable contributors in helping to release many from emotional and spiritual bondage, but I disagree with them all over some issues and have done so on this Board and in private mail. I am not the type of person who engages in attacks on others when they are not present to defend themselves ( definitely a cultist trait! ) , I prefer sorting my problems out directly with the persons concerned, so I will refrain joining in the 'Farkel Bash', but do I feel sure you understand that it is very possible for most people to remain friends with people who have strongly differing viewpoints on even serious matters, and such people exist on this Board. Please do give these people some credit for having their own minds and opinions and not blindly following others.

  Best regards - HS
• 

  DannyBear

  HS,

  Maybe I missed something here, but you elude to Farkel not being here to defend himself? Was he deactivated? Has his account been terminiated?

  A false premise to your advice and admonition imo.

  Tj made some very telling observations about the willingness of other members of this discussion board to confront certain bombastic comentator's, with opposing views. I think he made enough impression on Alan to write a rather lengthy defensive response. In other words he hit a nerve.

  Danny
• 

  DannyBear

  Tj,

  **** Your repeated reference to Ray as my god was an interesting ploy. One who didn't know you better would have expected more from you. Thankfully, I know you better. It's sad that you couldn't have come with a stronger argument, but that you didn't is not entirely surprising***

  I had the very same reaction to Alan's attempt at discrediting your position. A failed attempt imo.

  Danny
• 

  AlanF

  DannyBear said:

  : Tj made some very telling observations about the willingness of other members of this discussion board to confront certain bombastic comentator's, with opposing views.

  Yes, he did. But I didn't comment on any of that. That's between Teejay and Farkel.

  : I think he made enough impression on Alan to write a rather lengthy defensive response. In other words he hit a nerve.

  Wrong about which nerve he hit. I carefully explained the problem. Teejay is dead wrong and a liar to boot. I will not tolerate being falsely accused and insulted. I will not tolerate Teejay falsely accusing other posters and insulting their intelligence and spirit. You need to go back and read my post again. You need to be able to answer the three questions I posed -- if not in this thread, then in your own mind. If you can't, then you don't understand the problem.

  AlanF
• 

  Brummie

  I think TJ made a good point about exjws feeling the need to have a substitute for the Watchtower leaders, after all we had looked up to them for most af our lives and its easy to keep the mindset without realising it.

  OTOH I agree with you AlanF, he went a bit far to assume we are cultic followers of posters we admire, I can see how you would take offence at that. I didnt pick up on that in his post but can see it now you have pointed it out.

  Brummie
• 

  DannyBear

  Alan,

  ***Teejay is dead wrong and a liar to boot***

  Well excuse me Alan. I simply don't see it that way.

  I happen to agree with his analogy of 'cult' in reference to the way certain member's of this board and other's turn a blind eye towards abhorent behaviour's displayed by those he named.

  I don't care how much someone has done or will do, in behalf of any good cause.....when that individual consider's himself above the norm....it's time to start knocking the pedestal out.

  Do you really believe that TJ thinks there is an organized cult of Farkelites or Normites? HS says he went over the top......to me the analogy worked. It drove home a very real observation about the dynamics of these boards.

  Danny
• 

  teejay

  I will not tolerate being falsely accused and insulted. I will not tolerate Teejay falsely accusing other posters and insulting their intelligence and spirit.

  Alan,

  Why you insist on missing the point I cannot understand. Well... actually I do. Your feigned indignation, while precious at first, is becoming a bit tiresome, don't you think? Please do let it go.

  Of course I could be wrong but I strongly believe there *is* a Cult of AlanF, a Cult of Farkel, a Cult of JanH, and a cult of kent, although the latter cult is a dying breed, populated by a mere handful of diehards found in lonely outposts scattered hither and yawn throughout the northern-most reaches of Norway. Is there a Cult of Ray Franz? You betcha. This is not to say that any of you "leaders" ever intended to have a cult following, but one cannot ever have full control over what another one says or does, can they?

  If you think that I accused you of anything when I mentioned the various cults in the ex-JW community then you simply missed the point. Further... if any poster stands accused, it is only those posters for whom the shoe fits and no other.